Fresh start for the Quakers as fans buy out club

The Northern Echo: Interim chairman Denis Pinnegar shakes hands with Craig Liddle Interim chairman Denis Pinnegar shakes hands with Craig Liddle

AFTER months of pain and uncertainty, Darlington Football Club has been bought by its fans and is looking forward to a new beginning.

Community company Darlington FC 1883 Ltd (DFC 1883) yesterday agreed a deal with administrator Harvey Madden to purchase the club’s assets.

The deal went through without a company voluntary arrangement in place, meaning creditors, including former chairman Raj Singh, are unlikely to get their money back.

The club could also face further sanction from the Football Association (FA).

However, DFC 1883 last night pledged to do all it could to help local businesses who lost out when the club was placed in administration.

Denis Pinnegar, interim chairman of DFC 1883, is also hopeful that the FA will look favourably on the club and not demote it below the Evo-Stik Division Premier North – two divisions below its current position.

Mr Pinnegar last night paid tribute to the fans, DFC 1883 board members, players, administrator and manager Craig Liddle for keeping the club alive after it was placed in administration in January.

He added: “This is a big day for Darlington.

“We have created a club that will be run for the benefit and entertainment of the community.

“Any money that is made will be reinvested in the community.”

Mr Madden said he was “delighted and elated” that a deal had been signed for fans to take over the club.

He added: “My hope is that DFC 1883 can get going, get promoted fairly quickly and can get back to Darlington as soon as possible.”

The new owners have the support of caretaker manager Craig Liddle, who has agreed to sit down and discuss his own future with DFC 1883.

He said: “I’m chuffed to bits.

“We now have a football club that is run by people who are in it for the right reasons – that is for the football club to be secure and move forward, and not for any financial gain.”

DFC 1883’s purchase of the club without a CVA and its plans to play away from the arena are radically different to the plan outlined in January when a shares issue was announced.

It has prompted the community company to begin the process of returning about £325,000 to fans who bought shares through the Crowdcube funding system.

However, supporters will be urged to reinvest their money in the new proposal, with DFC 1883 saying it needs at least £200,000 by July.

It is understood Darlington Uncovered fans forum and Darlington FC Supporters’ Club will reinvest their money. The Northern Echo confirmed it will also reinvest its £10,000 as long as the DFC 1883 plans remained credible.

DFC 1883 said on Wednesday morning that it was ready to submit its offer for the club.

However, complications emerged later in the day that prevented the purchase.

The complications surrounded the players’ wages and the 25 per cent of their salaries they have not been paid since the club was placed in administration. DFC 1883 learnt on Wednesday it would become liable for the unpaid wages once it took over.

In order for the purchase of the club to go ahead, members of DFC 1883, with help from Craig Liddle, contacted all players asking them to agree to temporarily waive the money they are owed – about £100,000.

All agreed on condition they will receive their money later.

Comments (35)

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9:39am Fri 4 May 12

MSG says...

I would only re-invest , if the team remain in the borough of Darlington.
I would only re-invest , if the team remain in the borough of Darlington. MSG

11:20am Fri 4 May 12

quakersam says...

Can I ask why that might be? Unfortunately for one season we're going to have to be based outside of Darlington at either Shildon or Bishop Auckland.
This is because the Arena is just too expensive to run for the league we will be playing football in. It will cost 270k for the year to play there, whereas groundsharing we will be paying c30k for the year. There's an extra 240k that could potentially go into the playing budget.
The Arena is due a massive maintenance check because its been there 10years so costs have gone up significantly.
Unforunately for us there are no grounds with a grading high enough for the EvoStik League within Darlington right at this moment. However the plans are to return to the town within a year.

Hope this answers your query
Can I ask why that might be? Unfortunately for one season we're going to have to be based outside of Darlington at either Shildon or Bishop Auckland. This is because the Arena is just too expensive to run for the league we will be playing football in. It will cost 270k for the year to play there, whereas groundsharing we will be paying c30k for the year. There's an extra 240k that could potentially go into the playing budget. The Arena is due a massive maintenance check because its been there 10years so costs have gone up significantly. Unforunately for us there are no grounds with a grading high enough for the EvoStik League within Darlington right at this moment. However the plans are to return to the town within a year. Hope this answers your query quakersam

11:22am Fri 4 May 12

morgan1 says...

Crowdcube have not made a single update on this for ages let alone started any refund process.

I would have expected a statement yesterday evening or first thing this morning but so far nothing.
Crowdcube have not made a single update on this for ages let alone started any refund process. I would have expected a statement yesterday evening or first thing this morning but so far nothing. morgan1

11:29am Fri 4 May 12

morgan1 says...

I think a lot of people will not invest as you have not involved them or infomed them or surveyed them for their opinion.

Before I even think of a re-invest I would want to see details of the deal on the record, a detailed business plan not fantasy statements like being back in the league in three years when dont even know which league you will start from.

Quite honestly the way this has been done ignoring would be investors, why should we believe you would involve us in any future decisions.

So far the community club has been the board and nobody else.

I look at peoples actions and not what they say, and so far the actions of the board do not imply a community run club no matter what the excuses.
I think a lot of people will not invest as you have not involved them or infomed them or surveyed them for their opinion. Before I even think of a re-invest I would want to see details of the deal on the record, a detailed business plan not fantasy statements like being back in the league in three years when dont even know which league you will start from. Quite honestly the way this has been done ignoring would be investors, why should we believe you would involve us in any future decisions. So far the community club has been the board and nobody else. I look at peoples actions and not what they say, and so far the actions of the board do not imply a community run club no matter what the excuses. morgan1

12:12pm Fri 4 May 12

quakersam says...

Can I just say I'm not a spokesman for 1883, I'm a fan just like you and I'm trying to answer a few points. If you want to ask the board a question then they are answering questions freely on the Uncovered messageboard.

Look, they only took the club over yesterday, discussions on how the refund policy and re-investment process is happening today, and this will be put out to fans as soon as possible. These board members have real jobs to go to, they are giving up paid jobs to do this for you and I so cut them a bit of slack eh.
They can't spoon feed you every little decision, again there just hasn't been the time for consult every would-be investor, the club was a few minutes from being liquidated yesterday, how long do you think it would take to consult every would be shareholder on a certain decision?

There is no you and us here, we are all in this together, you need to understand to have a little bit of patience, if it wasn't for the board members you wouldn't have a club today.
Shareholders will be involved in future decisions, however there is an awful lot of work to be done to get this club into a league for next season.
We need everybody pulling in the same direction here
Can I just say I'm not a spokesman for 1883, I'm a fan just like you and I'm trying to answer a few points. If you want to ask the board a question then they are answering questions freely on the Uncovered messageboard. Look, they only took the club over yesterday, discussions on how the refund policy and re-investment process is happening today, and this will be put out to fans as soon as possible. These board members have real jobs to go to, they are giving up paid jobs to do this for you and I so cut them a bit of slack eh. They can't spoon feed you every little decision, again there just hasn't been the time for consult every would-be investor, the club was a few minutes from being liquidated yesterday, how long do you think it would take to consult every would be shareholder on a certain decision? There is no you and us here, we are all in this together, you need to understand to have a little bit of patience, if it wasn't for the board members you wouldn't have a club today. Shareholders will be involved in future decisions, however there is an awful lot of work to be done to get this club into a league for next season. We need everybody pulling in the same direction here quakersam

12:31pm Fri 4 May 12

morgan1 says...

To consult every potential investors is done via a surveymonkey to their email addresses and actually takes less than a few hours to get a response. This is not an excuse and could have been done in the last 3-4 weeks.

There is little difference in liquidation you still end up in the same place you still have to apply for a licence and buy the assets, Darlington FC 1883 ltd is a NewCo founded in 18/01/12.

In liquidation you would not have the added complication of Raj holding the existing license and as all things are paid for there and then, they may not have been able to purchase all required as I suspect they may not have all the money needed as yet.

Simple too focused on avoiding the CVA as a way out and not getting an opinion from the pledged shareholders on Crowdcube.
To consult every potential investors is done via a surveymonkey to their email addresses and actually takes less than a few hours to get a response. This is not an excuse and could have been done in the last 3-4 weeks. There is little difference in liquidation you still end up in the same place you still have to apply for a licence and buy the assets, Darlington FC 1883 ltd is a NewCo founded in 18/01/12. In liquidation you would not have the added complication of Raj holding the existing license and as all things are paid for there and then, they may not have been able to purchase all required as I suspect they may not have all the money needed as yet. Simple too focused on avoiding the CVA as a way out and not getting an opinion from the pledged shareholders on Crowdcube. morgan1

12:36pm Fri 4 May 12

kelly_0980 says...

Shildon is a tad closer to Darlo so lets hope they 'ground share' at Dean Street and not Heritage Park. Bishop fans dont want them there!
Shildon is a tad closer to Darlo so lets hope they 'ground share' at Dean Street and not Heritage Park. Bishop fans dont want them there! kelly_0980

12:42pm Fri 4 May 12

morgan1 says...

If the 943 pledged investors had been allowed to vote on the direction with the consequences put to them then you would have had an immediate consensous of those willing to be part of the club.

The full amount was not raised as Stage 1 was not acted upon as stated but I think 750K probably was a reachable target, if there had been more direct communication from the board to the pledged investors of which there was none.

This decision is based on the board only and you may find the majority may not wish this, this would have been the correct thing to have done.

Even now its not to late to ask the pledged investors whether this is what they want or can they provide the additonal funds necessary, I dont see why it cant be done.
If the 943 pledged investors had been allowed to vote on the direction with the consequences put to them then you would have had an immediate consensous of those willing to be part of the club. The full amount was not raised as Stage 1 was not acted upon as stated but I think 750K probably was a reachable target, if there had been more direct communication from the board to the pledged investors of which there was none. This decision is based on the board only and you may find the majority may not wish this, this would have been the correct thing to have done. Even now its not to late to ask the pledged investors whether this is what they want or can they provide the additonal funds necessary, I dont see why it cant be done. morgan1

12:43pm Fri 4 May 12

Holbrook Quaker says...

This looks to have been a fast moving and complex situation - within which some of the parties have been inconsistent in their demands. There will always be things that could have been done better but, on balance, it feels like we're in a good place.

If where we are is good enough for Craig Liddle then it's good enough for me! There's a man I trust.

I'm grateful for those fans investing significant amounts of their own time on our collective behalf to rescue the club I've loved since I was 7 years old.

I'll definitely reinvest - and I might even put a bit more money in now that I know that none of it is going to Raj Singh.
This looks to have been a fast moving and complex situation - within which some of the parties have been inconsistent in their demands. There will always be things that could have been done better but, on balance, it feels like we're in a good place. If where we are is good enough for Craig Liddle then it's good enough for me! There's a man I trust. I'm grateful for those fans investing significant amounts of their own time on our collective behalf to rescue the club I've loved since I was 7 years old. I'll definitely reinvest - and I might even put a bit more money in now that I know that none of it is going to Raj Singh. Holbrook Quaker

1:01pm Fri 4 May 12

quakersam says...

morgan1, I understand your frustrations but you keep babbling on about not communicating with shareholders, I appreciate your point but the board have been fully open and answered any questions fans have had via the messageboard. If you want to ask a question go and do it.

We are where we are now, you either support it or you don't. Simple as that
morgan1, I understand your frustrations but you keep babbling on about not communicating with shareholders, I appreciate your point but the board have been fully open and answered any questions fans have had via the messageboard. If you want to ask a question go and do it. We are where we are now, you either support it or you don't. Simple as that quakersam

1:04pm Fri 4 May 12

MSG says...

Sadly, if they leave town, my support of Darlo since being a very young fan in 1973 and regular supporter since, ends as of 2012.
I will not be going to Co.Durham to watch football.
Very sad about how it has ended. I thought my £100, along with many others contributions would secure a better outcome.
Sadly, if they leave town, my support of Darlo since being a very young fan in 1973 and regular supporter since, ends as of 2012. I will not be going to Co.Durham to watch football. Very sad about how it has ended. I thought my £100, along with many others contributions would secure a better outcome. MSG

1:05pm Fri 4 May 12

quakersam says...

Kelly, the Bishop fans and directors I've spoken to have been extremely receptive towards us and would welcome us there
Kelly, the Bishop fans and directors I've spoken to have been extremely receptive towards us and would welcome us there quakersam

1:17pm Fri 4 May 12

morgan1 says...

QuakersAM,

I dont need questions answered, I want a community club (pledged shareholders) to be asked their opinion, you seem to miss the point of a community owned club, the board is not the community.

You are obviously much closer than most but if its a coin toss then I am probably out as I simply dont see them asking the opinion of the would be shareholders, sounds like they will do what they want as they already have done.
QuakersAM, I dont need questions answered, I want a community club (pledged shareholders) to be asked their opinion, you seem to miss the point of a community owned club, the board is not the community. You are obviously much closer than most but if its a coin toss then I am probably out as I simply dont see them asking the opinion of the would be shareholders, sounds like they will do what they want as they already have done. morgan1

1:18pm Fri 4 May 12

quakersam says...

Fair enough respect your decision, and thanks for sticking with it since 73. I think we were all wishing for a better outcome but things happen out of our control unfortunately. The blame lies at one man's door, not mentioning any names.

On the bright side there are already a number of people who've said they are coming back now we are out the arena and the fans now own it, good on them!
Fair enough respect your decision, and thanks for sticking with it since 73. I think we were all wishing for a better outcome but things happen out of our control unfortunately. The blame lies at one man's door, not mentioning any names. On the bright side there are already a number of people who've said they are coming back now we are out the arena and the fans now own it, good on them! quakersam

1:23pm Fri 4 May 12

bishops_man says...

Kelly, not sure who you have been talking to but you are very wrong. Bishop Auckland football club and supporters would be very happy for Darlington to play at Heritage Park, you would certainly gain many new supporters. Also, I think I'm right in believing that Shildons ground is only up to Northern league standard so that wouldn't be an option. Shildons ground is very old, in serious need of maintenance wheras Bishops ground is brand new with excellent facilities.
Kelly, not sure who you have been talking to but you are very wrong. Bishop Auckland football club and supporters would be very happy for Darlington to play at Heritage Park, you would certainly gain many new supporters. Also, I think I'm right in believing that Shildons ground is only up to Northern league standard so that wouldn't be an option. Shildons ground is very old, in serious need of maintenance wheras Bishops ground is brand new with excellent facilities. bishops_man

1:36pm Fri 4 May 12

randy mcflabb says...

i bet Raj has been on the phone to Jenny already, he,ll be stotting, i thought one of the reasons DFC failed was because it moved away from Feethams, so what will happen when they move from the Town?
i bet Raj has been on the phone to Jenny already, he,ll be stotting, i thought one of the reasons DFC failed was because it moved away from Feethams, so what will happen when they move from the Town? randy mcflabb

1:36pm Fri 4 May 12

quakersam says...

Shildon does have the grading or else it wouldn't be considered. As a fan though, Bishop is my preference for obvious reasons
Shildon does have the grading or else it wouldn't be considered. As a fan though, Bishop is my preference for obvious reasons quakersam

1:43pm Fri 4 May 12

gavshaw62 says...

being a sunderland fan my opinion my not mean a lot but i have also followed darlington over the years going to my first game in 70's a 1-0 win over sheff wed a few away games but only 1 at the new arena. The club in my opinion should never have moved from the town centre put it did and the rest is history but if the club is to survive and play for a season or 2 at bishop auckland before relocating back in darlington then so be surely it is better than not having a club at all. im sure the genuine and majority of fans and quiet a few dont come from the town will go along and support the club as for people writing on here saying they wont go then the club will be better off without you as it needs people behind not people trying to stir up trouble behind the scenes. good luck to the club and lets hope we can see it get a few quick promotions and back in the football league where it belongs. p.s lets hope the new owners set reasonable admission prices for the league they start in and this will put a few more on the gate
being a sunderland fan my opinion my not mean a lot but i have also followed darlington over the years going to my first game in 70's a 1-0 win over sheff wed a few away games but only 1 at the new arena. The club in my opinion should never have moved from the town centre put it did and the rest is history but if the club is to survive and play for a season or 2 at bishop auckland before relocating back in darlington then so be surely it is better than not having a club at all. im sure the genuine and majority of fans and quiet a few dont come from the town will go along and support the club as for people writing on here saying they wont go then the club will be better off without you as it needs people behind not people trying to stir up trouble behind the scenes. good luck to the club and lets hope we can see it get a few quick promotions and back in the football league where it belongs. p.s lets hope the new owners set reasonable admission prices for the league they start in and this will put a few more on the gate gavshaw62

1:46pm Fri 4 May 12

quakersam says...

It will be a community club. The current board is made up of 50% fans, therefore it is reflective of the community. 3 of the current board will be taking the club forward and a few other fans will be elected on to the board at the AGM over the summer.
You do realise that the board will be in charge of the running of the club, we need proper business people in there who know what they are doing, not some numpty with the IQ of a 2 year old.
Seriously, what do you actually want to be asked? This isn't a club where you are going to pick the manager, pick the team and pick the signings, its not football manager.
They have already listened to fans opinions on the msgboard about where we groundshare next season, however a decision needs to be made for the FA within the next 5-7 days and to speak to clubs and draft up a lease doesn't take a few minutes.
These are times when decisions will ultimately have to be made quickly. In the future when we have more time to consult everybody, fans will be asked their opinions. I'm sure the options on returning to the town, fans will be consulted on their thoughts and opinions.
Remember, the people on the board are just like you and I, they are fans of the club and want the best possible route forward. This isn't a school project where you do a quick survey
It will be a community club. The current board is made up of 50% fans, therefore it is reflective of the community. 3 of the current board will be taking the club forward and a few other fans will be elected on to the board at the AGM over the summer. You do realise that the board will be in charge of the running of the club, we need proper business people in there who know what they are doing, not some numpty with the IQ of a 2 year old. Seriously, what do you actually want to be asked? This isn't a club where you are going to pick the manager, pick the team and pick the signings, its not football manager. They have already listened to fans opinions on the msgboard about where we groundshare next season, however a decision needs to be made for the FA within the next 5-7 days and to speak to clubs and draft up a lease doesn't take a few minutes. These are times when decisions will ultimately have to be made quickly. In the future when we have more time to consult everybody, fans will be asked their opinions. I'm sure the options on returning to the town, fans will be consulted on their thoughts and opinions. Remember, the people on the board are just like you and I, they are fans of the club and want the best possible route forward. This isn't a school project where you do a quick survey quakersam

1:49pm Fri 4 May 12

quakersam says...

Well said gavshaw. We need everybody to pull together right now. We need to take this club back to where it belongs. It will be a hard task but we can get there. If you are with us your with us, if not your better off staying away
Well said gavshaw. We need everybody to pull together right now. We need to take this club back to where it belongs. It will be a hard task but we can get there. If you are with us your with us, if not your better off staying away quakersam

2:11pm Fri 4 May 12

morgan1 says...

Quakersam
I have been only courteous to you.

Having run businesses successfully for 25 years and with a wealth of business capability as well as resources, I know how and what it takes to make companies successful.

The model I was interested in but felt the pitch was well short of what was needed, and did not offer anything for a larger investor, so I think I will sit on the sidelines for now to see what happens.
Quakersam I have been only courteous to you. Having run businesses successfully for 25 years and with a wealth of business capability as well as resources, I know how and what it takes to make companies successful. The model I was interested in but felt the pitch was well short of what was needed, and did not offer anything for a larger investor, so I think I will sit on the sidelines for now to see what happens. morgan1

2:17pm Fri 4 May 12

quakersam says...

And I have only been courteous back. I'm trying my best to answer your questions but some of them take the biscuit.
You have your opinions, I have mine.
How much do you mean by being a "larger" investor out of curiosity? Why didn't you come forward when the club needed money if you were interested? You could of least been in communication with them if you wanted information, no?

The pitch is designed so that the club isn't owned by one single person with a majority shareholding, which is exactly how we've been put in this positions three times before; Reynolds, Houghton, Singh.
You are allowed to invest up to a maximum of a 15% shareholding in the club for this exact reason.
And I have only been courteous back. I'm trying my best to answer your questions but some of them take the biscuit. You have your opinions, I have mine. How much do you mean by being a "larger" investor out of curiosity? Why didn't you come forward when the club needed money if you were interested? You could of least been in communication with them if you wanted information, no? The pitch is designed so that the club isn't owned by one single person with a majority shareholding, which is exactly how we've been put in this positions three times before; Reynolds, Houghton, Singh. You are allowed to invest up to a maximum of a 15% shareholding in the club for this exact reason. quakersam

2:25pm Fri 4 May 12

Friendoffeetham says...

Try to be a little positive, please!
After all the DFC 1883 has put in a lot of work the keep this club going on! What kind of capasity and amount of time somebody expect them to have?! For the moment they have saved the club from liquidation - give them some time to sort out all details before you judge them. It's a lot to be done - not at least versus the tricky and stubborn football authorities. Decission about in which league to play next season - and finding a new ground are the most urgent challenges at the moment.
Try to be a little positive, please! After all the DFC 1883 has put in a lot of work the keep this club going on! What kind of capasity and amount of time somebody expect them to have?! For the moment they have saved the club from liquidation - give them some time to sort out all details before you judge them. It's a lot to be done - not at least versus the tricky and stubborn football authorities. Decission about in which league to play next season - and finding a new ground are the most urgent challenges at the moment. Friendoffeetham

2:28pm Fri 4 May 12

gavshaw62 says...

in some way or other we would all like the best for darlington the club has been run abysmally in the past with all the false promises coming from previous owners now the club has got people involved who actually care for the club and want to keep darlington going and have put a lot of hard work into it wether businessmen or not lets put all the bickering aside unite and follow the club i for one will be going back and watching the club next season hopefully along with a lot more fans who stopped going because of previous owners and false promises
in some way or other we would all like the best for darlington the club has been run abysmally in the past with all the false promises coming from previous owners now the club has got people involved who actually care for the club and want to keep darlington going and have put a lot of hard work into it wether businessmen or not lets put all the bickering aside unite and follow the club i for one will be going back and watching the club next season hopefully along with a lot more fans who stopped going because of previous owners and false promises gavshaw62

3:03pm Fri 4 May 12

morgan1 says...

Larger investors want to see a way that they can make money from there investment they are not charities for any cause, otherwise they would not have the money.

Likewise if you want to succeed back to the league you have to deliver a balanced plan which provides for the shareholders as well as growing the club.

If you ignore this then it wont happen.
How many managers or players are going to work for you for 'free' to get you back to league football, 'None', so it will stay as volunteers and part timers and as such you will not make it back.

So why do you think people who are willing to invest their hard earned income should expect nothing other than a few peaks, may be ok for £100 here or there but not if you want serious money.

I have tried to get across that the board did not actively seek the opinion of those willing to pledge money, so it did not find out what resources may have been available, and as such did not succeed in raising the finance.

The very fact that they did not try or encourage or connect with those pledging investment made me very uneasy.

I suspected the route achieved was always what they had in mind.
Larger investors want to see a way that they can make money from there investment they are not charities for any cause, otherwise they would not have the money. Likewise if you want to succeed back to the league you have to deliver a balanced plan which provides for the shareholders as well as growing the club. If you ignore this then it wont happen. How many managers or players are going to work for you for 'free' to get you back to league football, 'None', so it will stay as volunteers and part timers and as such you will not make it back. So why do you think people who are willing to invest their hard earned income should expect nothing other than a few peaks, may be ok for £100 here or there but not if you want serious money. I have tried to get across that the board did not actively seek the opinion of those willing to pledge money, so it did not find out what resources may have been available, and as such did not succeed in raising the finance. The very fact that they did not try or encourage or connect with those pledging investment made me very uneasy. I suspected the route achieved was always what they had in mind. morgan1

3:37pm Fri 4 May 12

quakersam says...

Larger investors want to see a way that they can make money from there investment?

Sorry that won't be happening. Investors will be investing in their club, any profits made will be going straight back into the club. We are not investing to make money from the club, we are investing to be a part of our club, to protect its future.

Of course players and managers aren't going to work for free, the club will go to part time this coming season like any other club in the EvoStik League. But wages will be a lot less than this season, and with the larger crowds we should be able to prize the better players and will hopefully rise through the leagues. I'm not saying we're going to win promotion every season, we'll have to see what happens
Larger investors want to see a way that they can make money from there investment? Sorry that won't be happening. Investors will be investing in their club, any profits made will be going straight back into the club. We are not investing to make money from the club, we are investing to be a part of our club, to protect its future. Of course players and managers aren't going to work for free, the club will go to part time this coming season like any other club in the EvoStik League. But wages will be a lot less than this season, and with the larger crowds we should be able to prize the better players and will hopefully rise through the leagues. I'm not saying we're going to win promotion every season, we'll have to see what happens quakersam

4:40pm Fri 4 May 12

morgan1 says...

quakersam

Yes, I understand what you are saying, but that is why I dont think it will work (My opinion). I truely hope it does but I dont expect it.
I personally dont like what Football has become but in this our time if you want success in Football then it is a money game and with the best will in the world you cannot ignore this substantial fact.

Even business support does not come for nothing.

With respect assumptions are never good, there is no guarantee you will get larger crowds and one should not plan on this better to plan and expect less and pleased with more than make the assumption.

The club can still be a community run club where the community benefits with success and you should not rule it out having a couple of 15 % shareholdings would have made the financing successful.
I see getting them difficult if there is no return for them, all you will suceed in doing with success is making players wealthy off the backs of the community, rather than everyone sharing in the success.

Everthing in life is balance.
quakersam Yes, I understand what you are saying, but that is why I dont think it will work (My opinion). I truely hope it does but I dont expect it. I personally dont like what Football has become but in this our time if you want success in Football then it is a money game and with the best will in the world you cannot ignore this substantial fact. Even business support does not come for nothing. With respect assumptions are never good, there is no guarantee you will get larger crowds and one should not plan on this better to plan and expect less and pleased with more than make the assumption. The club can still be a community run club where the community benefits with success and you should not rule it out having a couple of 15 % shareholdings would have made the financing successful. I see getting them difficult if there is no return for them, all you will suceed in doing with success is making players wealthy off the backs of the community, rather than everyone sharing in the success. Everthing in life is balance. morgan1

10:41pm Fri 4 May 12

elvispresleysking says...

I'm confused about the money pledged and being refunded and then being re-invested.

I thought that the initial £250k was to purchase the club from HM and then the next £250k was to be used to pay the creditors with the final £250k being used to cover ongoing running costs.

Now we are told that the club only costs £200k with £100k of that to cover player wages that have been deferred whilst DFC1883 'buy' the club.

So if DFC1883 are refunding the £325k pledged and asking for it to be 're-invested' by June/July what have they used to actually 'buy' the club yesterday?
I'm confused about the money pledged and being refunded and then being re-invested. I thought that the initial £250k was to purchase the club from HM and then the next £250k was to be used to pay the creditors with the final £250k being used to cover ongoing running costs. Now we are told that the club only costs £200k with £100k of that to cover player wages that have been deferred whilst DFC1883 'buy' the club. So if DFC1883 are refunding the £325k pledged and asking for it to be 're-invested' by June/July what have they used to actually 'buy' the club yesterday? elvispresleysking

11:42pm Fri 4 May 12

laughingboy51 says...

No ground, no Manager, no players, no money, no league to play in even if they had a team..they need more than luck....still "You're Darlo 'till you die"......at this rate the club is dead before we are!!!!!
No ground, no Manager, no players, no money, no league to play in even if they had a team..they need more than luck....still "You're Darlo 'till you die"......at this rate the club is dead before we are!!!!! laughingboy51

11:52pm Fri 4 May 12

quakersam says...

Elvis, the 750k is no longer needed as the CVA failed thanks to a certain person who shall not be named. Clauses that he tried to put in to the deal meant the Fa wouldnt accept the CVA, this meant we couldnt afford to pay him his 800k and the creditors (500k) on top of that.
So the assets of the club was bought yesterday from resources that weren't disclosed, although part of the money was from the Darlington Uncovered Fighting Fund that us the fans had raised.

All money is being refunded via CrowdCube because the pitch has changed and 1883 feel they couldnt take fans money in these conditions.
The new business plan will be made available in due course and fans will have the chance to re-invest, which I will be doing, as will a lot of others.

Laughingboy, your not living up to your name as none of us are amused at you, back to school next week is it?
Elvis, the 750k is no longer needed as the CVA failed thanks to a certain person who shall not be named. Clauses that he tried to put in to the deal meant the Fa wouldnt accept the CVA, this meant we couldnt afford to pay him his 800k and the creditors (500k) on top of that. So the assets of the club was bought yesterday from resources that weren't disclosed, although part of the money was from the Darlington Uncovered Fighting Fund that us the fans had raised. All money is being refunded via CrowdCube because the pitch has changed and 1883 feel they couldnt take fans money in these conditions. The new business plan will be made available in due course and fans will have the chance to re-invest, which I will be doing, as will a lot of others. Laughingboy, your not living up to your name as none of us are amused at you, back to school next week is it? quakersam

1:17pm Sun 6 May 12

Darlo1883 says...

Not sure I am going to re-invest either and before people get on their high horse I bought two season tickets last year and couldnt be bothered to make the effort to go most weeks, just had enough and gave them away most weeks. So picking family up in Stockton and travelling to and from wherever we choose play will ultimately mean that I will choose not to go to the games and work overtime instead, a lot of which in the past I would gladly have given up to watch the team. For all we might pick up some new support I'm sure we'll lose a lot along the way. Also, too much confusion as to what is going on - Crowdcube are refunding money?? No contact from anyone about this- cant remember seeing this on Darlo Uncovered either as to how this will be achieved. Like Morgan1 said above fans could be polled about items that affect the running of the Community Club quite easily, why not gain an idea of how many fans are unhappy about moving out of town? Wouldnt harm then there would at least be a concensus of opinion. Ask if moving out of town why would people not go, could be transport issues, anything, something the board could then take on and try to address? It's not a hard task!!
Not sure I am going to re-invest either and before people get on their high horse I bought two season tickets last year and couldnt be bothered to make the effort to go most weeks, just had enough and gave them away most weeks. So picking family up in Stockton and travelling to and from wherever we choose play will ultimately mean that I will choose not to go to the games and work overtime instead, a lot of which in the past I would gladly have given up to watch the team. For all we might pick up some new support I'm sure we'll lose a lot along the way. Also, too much confusion as to what is going on - Crowdcube are refunding money?? No contact from anyone about this- cant remember seeing this on Darlo Uncovered either as to how this will be achieved. Like Morgan1 said above fans could be polled about items that affect the running of the Community Club quite easily, why not gain an idea of how many fans are unhappy about moving out of town? Wouldnt harm then there would at least be a concensus of opinion. Ask if moving out of town why would people not go, could be transport issues, anything, something the board could then take on and try to address? It's not a hard task!! Darlo1883

11:59pm Sun 6 May 12

quakersam says...

I can see where your coming from and understand your points. These are the things that the board are wanting to hear from the fans.
Don't forget we too have a responsibility to make this work so any points like that, put them on the 1883 board on Uncovered and they will look at it points like those. The travel problem and how they will address it is a good one which I agree with.
Obviously these things will take time to organise and their is a hell of a lot of work to be done before we even get to that stage which I'm sure you'd appreciate
I can see where your coming from and understand your points. These are the things that the board are wanting to hear from the fans. Don't forget we too have a responsibility to make this work so any points like that, put them on the 1883 board on Uncovered and they will look at it points like those. The travel problem and how they will address it is a good one which I agree with. Obviously these things will take time to organise and their is a hell of a lot of work to be done before we even get to that stage which I'm sure you'd appreciate quakersam

12:05am Mon 7 May 12

quakersam says...

As for CrowdCube, all money will be refunded and then a chance to re-invest by another method. This was being discussed and finalised over this weekend and will be put across to fans as soon as they've got the answer, it isn't easy believe me. They've got to stay within FSA rules etc etc.
They only took over on Thursday remember, lets not expect too much too soon. Be patient and give them the time they need to do everything properly
As for CrowdCube, all money will be refunded and then a chance to re-invest by another method. This was being discussed and finalised over this weekend and will be put across to fans as soon as they've got the answer, it isn't easy believe me. They've got to stay within FSA rules etc etc. They only took over on Thursday remember, lets not expect too much too soon. Be patient and give them the time they need to do everything properly quakersam

11:40am Mon 7 May 12

Darlo1883 says...

Thanks QuakerSam,
I appreciate the amount of time and effort people of 1883 consortium have been doing, maybe they need to delegate out to some people who use Uncovered to keep people up to speed better. It's amazing how many people ask the question, What is going on at Darlington, I dont think many know and that is a problem and the club yet again seems to get dragged through the mud. Better communication would greatly help at this time, things dont seem to move forward or timelines arent given and people get frustrated, the not knowing always gives certain people the idea that there is some sort of conspiracy. The article in the Echo on Saturday I think from the guy who runs the coach company who wanted to invest didnt portray the 1883 board in a good light, rightly or wrongly. With the amount of bad press the club has had in the past few (days, months, years - delete as appropriate :) - this needs to change quite quickly in my opinion. Altho it may take time to get certain 'deals' 'business' done by 1883 people (shareholders) need to be made more aware of whats going on - could someone not set up a blog on Uncovered that way the information is up to date and people can read back from the start what has been done, achieved, to do??
Thanks QuakerSam, I appreciate the amount of time and effort people of 1883 consortium have been doing, maybe they need to delegate out to some people who use Uncovered to keep people up to speed better. It's amazing how many people ask the question, What is going on at Darlington, I dont think many know and that is a problem and the club yet again seems to get dragged through the mud. Better communication would greatly help at this time, things dont seem to move forward or timelines arent given and people get frustrated, the not knowing always gives certain people the idea that there is some sort of conspiracy. The article in the Echo on Saturday I think from the guy who runs the coach company who wanted to invest didnt portray the 1883 board in a good light, rightly or wrongly. With the amount of bad press the club has had in the past few (days, months, years - delete as appropriate :) - this needs to change quite quickly in my opinion. Altho it may take time to get certain 'deals' 'business' done by 1883 people (shareholders) need to be made more aware of whats going on - could someone not set up a blog on Uncovered that way the information is up to date and people can read back from the start what has been done, achieved, to do?? Darlo1883

12:38am Wed 9 May 12

quakersam says...

Completely agree, some people seem to thrive off the not knowing, twisting peoples words to make up a conspiracy that people have hidden agendas.
But then again, when any progress is made it is usually put on Uncovered or will be in the Echo. However I don't think they should have to be announcing everything they're doing, there's really not much point. Let them get what they need to do done, if you have a question, the ask 1883 forum is open to anyone.
Re-investment should be sorted in the next couple of days and details will be made available. Yeah think the blog might be a good idea, will mention it tomorrow.

Also, there is an open evening happening on Friday with 1883 board members. Blackwell Grange Hotel, 7pm start. Ray Simpson will be chairing. Get yourselves down
Completely agree, some people seem to thrive off the not knowing, twisting peoples words to make up a conspiracy that people have hidden agendas. But then again, when any progress is made it is usually put on Uncovered or will be in the Echo. However I don't think they should have to be announcing everything they're doing, there's really not much point. Let them get what they need to do done, if you have a question, the ask 1883 forum is open to anyone. Re-investment should be sorted in the next couple of days and details will be made available. Yeah think the blog might be a good idea, will mention it tomorrow. Also, there is an open evening happening on Friday with 1883 board members. Blackwell Grange Hotel, 7pm start. Ray Simpson will be chairing. Get yourselves down quakersam

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