Homosexuals (From The Northern Echo)
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Homosexuals
5:29pm Tuesday 25th October 2011 in Letters
I WAS not aware that the British government is threatening to withdraw overseas aid from those countries where homosexuality is still classed as an illegal activity (HAS, Oct 22).
Privately, most people regard homosexuals as perverts.
The media, even The Northern Echo, give the false impression they are accepted as normal.
Susan Willis, Middlesbrough.
Comments(181)
Dante
says...
7:39pm Tue 25 Oct 11
antihypocrisy wrote:NO, that is only your opinion. Many people finf homosexuality a perversion..........
Is this an old letter been found down the back of a desk, perhaps from the late 1800's? What a fascinating insight into how ignorant some people were then.
........like football, it's a matter of opinion, but unlike football, where you can still shout your dislike for an opposing team, people cannot say they oppose homosexuality.
As one old man said on Radio Cleveland many years ago,......"when I was a lad it was ilegal....now it's leagal and we have to embrace it, I only hope I'm dead before it's made compulsary"
As far as I'm concerned, "I'm not, they are, but don't try and make me accept them. I will not hurt them, but don't try to make me say what the do is ok, and if you will forgive the pun, which is not intended,...stop trying to push it down our throats......I will not push my sexuality on you, so please don't push yours on me. If you are not ashamed of what you do, then don't try to justify it all the time.
Remember what Shakspear said......"methinks the lady protesteh too much" and that is what I think, if homosexuals felt at ease witn their lifestyle, they would not need to justify it with the rest of the population, not now as it's legal.
antihypocrisy
says...
7:50pm Tue 25 Oct 11
Gnasher1
says...
7:51pm Tue 25 Oct 11
You are correct Susan, can you remember the fawning by the media towards the McCanns when their daughter went missing, it's called political correctness. What makes it worse is, our children at school are being taught that this perversion is normal.
antihypocrisy
says...
8:00pm Tue 25 Oct 11
kebab57
says...
8:30pm Tue 25 Oct 11
Did this statement come along as a result of a survey? (only I don't recall being asked!)
If you support countries that persecute people for their sexuality do you also support countries that stone women to death for committing adultery (hetrosexuality!)...
....
Dante
says...
9:21pm Tue 25 Oct 11
antihypocrisy wrote:No, you are trying to oppose my right to disagree with homosexuality, if that is what I believe.
What is there to oppose?? You're showing your ignorance already by inferring people choose homosexuality as a lifestyle rather than the truth which is they are born to it. Do you also "oppose" coloured people?
I haven't said that I agree or disagree with it. however, as with all homosexual arguments, people such as you always try to play the race card/honosexual card etc.
It's time that ordinary people were left alone, and weren't forced to choose whether the supported honosexuality.
Why can't it simply be kept in the homsexulals bedronn, as is my sexuality? I don't constantly parade my sexulatity in the street or have to asault the archbishop in his pulpit because the bible says it's wrong to be homosexual.......it also says that adultry is wrong too, but I didn't see representatives of adulters marching on London demading that adultery is OK or demanding that the Archbishop stand up for adulters?
Do what you want in the confines of you own homes/hotels. but please don't try and force non homosexulas to accept what you do. Oh and if there is a God, and if he does bring the day of gudgement upon the earth as the bible says, and he does what he was supposed to have done to Sodem and Gomorah, because of all the homosexuality then,........well try and argue with him, not us here.
If you are happy being homosexual, then so be it, but stop trying to justify what you do with other people, just do it and shut up.
CTRILEY
says...
6:17am Wed 26 Oct 11
This means that people are born and don’t choose to be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, polysexual, asexual, transvestite, etc., nor do they choose to be male, female or hermaphrodite. No matter what we are at birth we are all born in a state of ignorance, but as some of you clearly show some stay in this state whilst others have advanced far beyond such Dark Age ignorance and bigotry.
CTRILEY
says...
6:28am Wed 26 Oct 11
How many women borrow their husband or boyfriends clothes or often wear their own pair of trousers, yet consider cross dressers as perverts?
Does that make them perverts or just hypocrites?
Gnasher1
says...
7:05am Wed 26 Oct 11
antihypocrisy wrote:Yes, someone could mention the 1800's.
Broad generalisation and even the McCanns mentioned... can this get any more ridiculous?
Lyns79
says...
11:16am Wed 26 Oct 11
Susan, 'most' people certainly do not share your opinion. I pity you living your life with such bigotry and negativity. If we were all the same the world would be a very dull place.
Stop generalising. Some homosexuals may not be normal, but not because they're gay. I've encountered plenty of hetrosexuals who could certainly never be considered 'normal' either.
David Lacey
says...
5:24pm Wed 26 Oct 11
Gnasher1
says...
9:32pm Wed 26 Oct 11
Lyns79 wrote:Lyns79 wrote:
How irresponsible of The Northern Echo to allow such opinion to be posted.
Susan, 'most' people certainly do not share your opinion. I pity you living your life with such bigotry and negativity. If we were all the same the world would be a very dull place.
Stop generalising. Some homosexuals may not be normal, but not because they're gay. I've encountered plenty of hetrosexuals who could certainly never be considered 'normal' either.
How irresponsible of The Northern Echo to allow such opinion to be posted.
It's called "Hear All Sides" dear!!
Mr M
says...
9:18am Thu 27 Oct 11
John Justice
says...
9:32am Thu 27 Oct 11
antihypocrisy
says...
9:43am Thu 27 Oct 11
antihypocrisy
says...
9:47am Thu 27 Oct 11
Lyns79 wrote:Well said, there is also some truth in the idea that many so called hetro men hide their strong feeling for other men, by publicly and vehemently condemning them....hhmmm??
How irresponsible of The Northern Echo to allow such opinion to be posted.
Susan, 'most' people certainly do not share your opinion. I pity you living your life with such bigotry and negativity. If we were all the same the world would be a very dull place.
Stop generalising. Some homosexuals may not be normal, but not because they're gay. I've encountered plenty of hetrosexuals who could certainly never be considered 'normal' either.
greenfinger
says...
10:32am Thu 27 Oct 11
Mooochas
says...
12:19pm Thu 27 Oct 11
*
Lol! - a bigger phishing bait you'd be hard pressed to find...
*
Shame on the giant whales above for their naivety and ignorance ;o)
Mark - the age of enlightenment
says...
12:25pm Thu 27 Oct 11
When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
Since the bible is a point of authority on this I could do with some advice from you regarding some of its related points.
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9.
The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them.
Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
21:7.
In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual cleanliness - Lev.15:19-24.
The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take
offense.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female,
provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. Can you clarify where I can buy a Welshman?
5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2
clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him
myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination - Lev.11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
defect in my sight. My brother is a good man but does wear reading glasses. Does his vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around
their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How
should they die?
9. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two
different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
Having mentioned the bible and its views on homosexuality I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging
antihypocrisy
says...
12:30pm Thu 27 Oct 11
Dean M
says...
1:31pm Thu 27 Oct 11
I can help you with your Welshman question. Try Wales.
Dean M
says...
1:35pm Thu 27 Oct 11
"How many of those who thinks gays are perverts get sexually aroused by watching gay women having sexual intercourse?"
.
Come on CTR, you know that's completely different and totally acceptable.
Dante
says...
2:12pm Thu 27 Oct 11
I said "if there is a God, and if he does bring the day of gudgement upon the earth as the bible says, and he does what he was supposed to have done to Sodem and Gomorah, because of all the homosexuality then,........well try and argue with him, not us here"
In other words, just get on with it, stop trying to convert the whole world to believe what you do is right....and if there is a god, then argue with him not the rest of us.
Dean M
says...
2:25pm Thu 27 Oct 11
kebab57 wrote:This is a very good point. Is no democracy not as bad as homosexuality being illegal? A country that has the death penalty?
Since when did one single person become the spokesperson for the majority? Did this statement come along as a result of a survey? (only I don't recall being asked!) If you support countries that persecute people for their sexuality do you also support countries that stone women to death for committing adultery (hetrosexuality!)... ....
.
Why has the British government focused on this particular issue to beat poor countries with?
.
Is there a gay mafia now at the head of government making such foreign policy decisions? Perhaps making policy whilst being photographed together taking walks, or sharing a bedroom (but only to save money of course).
Mark - the age of enlightenment
says...
4:24pm Thu 27 Oct 11
Just as a minor point of interest the story actually talks about the residents sins in general including torture and murder not specifically homosexuality.
Still look on the bright side - at least these homosexuals aren't stealing our jobs AND our women.
CTRILEY
says...
5:08pm Thu 27 Oct 11
Dean M wrote:Dean M you're right the fact which many don't know is that the brains of heterosexual men are hard wired to be sexually aroused by lesbians.
CTRILEY wrote: "How many of those who thinks gays are perverts get sexually aroused by watching gay women having sexual intercourse?" . Come on CTR, you know that's completely different and totally acceptable.
But may be its my sense of humour but when you break it down it's one of the odd jokes in the divine comedy called life.
babz
says...
5:31pm Thu 27 Oct 11
Kate Buell
says...
6:06pm Thu 27 Oct 11
Mark - the age of enlightenment wrote:What a stupid reply!
Dante - I'm slightly puzzled I'm afraid. I only asked for advice since your knowledge of the biblical story of Sodem and Gomorrah is so extensive. Just as a minor point of interest the story actually talks about the residents sins in general including torture and murder not specifically homosexuality. Still look on the bright side - at least these homosexuals aren't stealing our jobs AND our women.
funksoul201181
says...
6:27pm Thu 27 Oct 11
MBC2011
says...
6:42pm Thu 27 Oct 11
Being dissuaded from speaking out against homosexuality is not an infringement of your right to free speech, as you have no right to voice these opinions in the first place. Such views are naive, inane and shockingly close-minded. What use would it be to shout and rave about a black man being black? Though, given the nature of some of the comments above, I imagine many of you intolerant folk spend your evenings shouting that at the TV, too. Why not get out, read some books, open your minds to the fact that there are other lives to be lived in the world except your own, and that you have no basis (other than being the heterosexual majority) for your morally reprehensible clap trap?
I have many gay friends; many of you speaking out against homosexuality appear to be confusing being yourself with rubbing it in others' faces. Who defines the norm? By the same token, homosexuals could well accuse heterosexuals as rubbing their own lifestyles in the faces of the former. However, it is accepted that many heterosexuals will marry, settle down, have children -- and that some will not -- in short, that they will 'be themselves', and do what they feel they want to do. None of these things are offensive; neither is the chosen lifestyle of the homosexual. Shame on you -- and God forbid your children turn out to be gay, or you may well be forced to challenge your terrible prejudices, as my own father did.
twin39r
says...
7:03pm Thu 27 Oct 11
Gnasher1
says...
7:59pm Thu 27 Oct 11
What a very disturbing letter; I had no idea that such bigotry and reprehensible intolerance still exists to such a vast degree in the chintzy homes of so many of the North East's citizens.
Have you been hibernating?
your joking
says...
9:20pm Thu 27 Oct 11
spragger
says...
9:51pm Thu 27 Oct 11
Many do not help their case by banging on its innate.
What people get up to in the privacy of their own home is up to them, as long as it harms no one else.
But why do our taxes have to support it? Why are their so many state funded agencies and activities?
Why so much time on laws to prop it up?
There are other much higher priorities but that will go right over the zealots heads ..
funksoul201181
says...
12:58am Fri 28 Oct 11
CTRILEY
says...
6:50am Fri 28 Oct 11
funksoul201181 wrote:How many of those qouting the Bible are aware that Old Testament relates to the Jews, whilst the New Testament relates to Christians. How it is the history, traditions and myths of a Middle Eastern tribe who other than the out of Africa migration are totally unrelated to everyone else on this planet. Which is why the story of Genesis, Noah and the Tower of Babel aren't found within the beliefs of other cultures.
wonder how many people here qouting bible etc actually go to church, have read the bible and live how jesus expects. id say none of you you qoute small parts of the bible then say to others dnt force things down others throaghts,maybe they dnt wanna live to the bibles standards. what happened to forgiveness etc. jesus ssaid the most important commandment was to love one another as you would love yourself.
Let's not forget that it has been edited numerous times in order to suit the political and religious beliefs of the time, for example "suffer not a witch to live" was orginally "suffer not a poisoner to live". Let's not forget how it portrays Jesus as a only child born of a virgin yet Mark 6:3 and Matthew 13:55-56 list Jesus's brothers and sisters, whilst the Dead Sea Scrolls give James as Jesus' eldest brother.
But if we are going to live by Bibles standards lets not forget how it supports slavery, racism; ethnic cleansing as well as racial, cultural and religious genocide; the oppression of women.
delboy1977
says...
7:35am Fri 28 Oct 11
Dante
says...
9:25am Fri 28 Oct 11
As I said before, do what you will in the privacy of your own home, but don't form groups to try and promote the lifestyle.
To me, anyone who constantly tries to get others to accept something they do not want to accept, can't be that easy with what they are doing anyway.
If they were, they would simply get on with it and not care what others think about it.
Nor do I believe that homosexuals should be persecuted for what they do, but don't try to get me to accept something I may or may not agree with, keep it private, that is all.
As to CT, Jesus himself, if you believe in him, said that he had fullfilled the Law, and that the new standard was Christianity which embraced all nations classes colours and gender. However, he did encourage people to repent of their sins and change. The apostlr Paul, said at 1 Corinthians 6 v 9 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Now then, if anyone is or believes themselves to be Christian, then they should follow Christian values set out in the new testerment. You cannot have a Christian gay rights movement.
You are either a Christian or you are not, if you do not follow the yteachings of your leader, then you cannot be a Christian.
So, if you are a practicing homsexual you cannot be Christian, so just get on with your lifestyle and one day you will either be proved right or wrong.
Whatever the answer is, stop trying to justify your lifestyle to everyone who isn't homsexual.
antihypocrisy
says...
9:49am Fri 28 Oct 11
Gnasher1
says...
9:59am Fri 28 Oct 11
antihypocrisy wrote:WRONG antihypocrisy, the original letter didn't speak for most people, as is clear with the amount of comments, most people can speak for themselves.
WRONG Dante, the issue is the original letter claiming to speak for most people which is blatantly an outrageous generalisation.
miketually
says...
10:46am Fri 28 Oct 11
antihypocrisy
says...
10:47am Fri 28 Oct 11
nufc64
says...
11:33am Fri 28 Oct 11
Dean M
says...
12:14pm Fri 28 Oct 11
nufc64 wrote:Stop making excuses for all those 'men' using any excuse to hug and kiss each other in the stands at sportstjamesdirect.p
Here's something to make you think. All people are attracted to the same sex, otherwise how would we be able to form relationships with people of the same sex. It's the degree to which those feelings manifest themselves to make you feel more attracted to the same sex or both. Therefore in my opinion everyone is GAY to some extent so stop the bigoted hypocrisy
ark.uk (or whatever the ground is called these days) each week.
.
To MBC2011. What is very disturbing is your assertion that people have no right to voice their opinions if it's to criticise something that you agree with. As you say 'who defines the norm?' i.e. who defines what people can or cannot agree with?
Dean M
says...
12:18pm Fri 28 Oct 11
Gnasher1 wrote:I think you're wrong, Gnasher.
antihypocrisy wrote: WRONG Dante, the issue is the original letter claiming to speak for most people which is blatantly an outrageous generalisation.WRONG antihypocrisy, the original letter didn't speak for most people, as is clear with the amount of comments, most people can speak for themselves.
.
"Privately, most people regard homosexuals as perverts." Surely this is a claim to speak for most people?
.
Although you're right to suggest that the reality is different.
antihypocrisy
says...
12:36pm Fri 28 Oct 11
I do agree with DM on this point, I also think that people have a right to openly criticise others for their LIFESTYLE CHOICE, ie burglars squatters etc but this isn't about choice is it? No one can choose to be gay, you are or you are not therefore what is there to "oppose"??
trickie43
says...
12:38pm Fri 28 Oct 11
There are plenty of perverts across all genders.......
antihypocrisy
says...
12:40pm Fri 28 Oct 11
antihypocrisy
says...
12:40pm Fri 28 Oct 11
antihypocrisy
says...
12:40pm Fri 28 Oct 11
antihypocrisy
says...
1:37pm Fri 28 Oct 11
Dante
says...
1:39pm Fri 28 Oct 11
antihypocrisy
says...
2:04pm Fri 28 Oct 11
hogworth
says...
2:37pm Fri 28 Oct 11
Ragnar
says...
2:47pm Fri 28 Oct 11
hogworth wrote:Well that's like saying God created Hitler, Pol Pot, criminals and murderers and paedophiles isn't it.
I understand God is supposed to have created everything and mankind, does this not include gays?
Man himself has to take some responsibility for what he does
Sir Donald Stokes
says...
3:15pm Fri 28 Oct 11
Bravo!
CTRILEY
says...
5:31pm Fri 28 Oct 11
We wouldn't stone someone for eating red meat, we would jump off a tall building simply because it said so in a book written long ago. So why should anyone degrade or dehumanise anyone for the same reason?
But it matters not whether the source is the Bible, Koran, Marx, Buddha, etc., the fact is that this world is in a mess because people aren't thinking for themselves. Instead using the out of context writings of dead people to effectively tell them what to think.
tomtopper
says...
7:52pm Fri 28 Oct 11
What my beef is, as with the majority of people.. Is the fact that we and especially our children are being socially engineered younger and younger to accept homosexuality as an absolute equal and that it is completel natural for a man to put an organ genetically designed to penetrate and seed a woman into somewhere that is designed to get rid of waste products... a lot of people do revile at the thought of this.. I believe that gay people should'nt be attacked nor mocked and thier preference is thiers alone but it should not be thrust upon children and vulnerable people in an almost sinister fashion by some quarters which the SILENT majority often read as perverted.. Its the establishments obsession with sex that people are getting sick of.
The scorn heaped on those who question it sticks in my throat. So my forefathers, who went over the top at the somme and who spent thier lives down a filthy coalmine are ignorant bigots are they...?
MBC2011
says...
8:10pm Fri 28 Oct 11
tomtopper wrote:Tom - what on earth does your grandfather fighting in world war one have to do with this? Are you really attempting to justify your Victorian moral codes by holding up the patriot card? Would it be better that everyone enslave themselves to the accepted ideals of your grandfather because he helped fight a war? And how about the grandfathers of gay men? Believe me, the 'majority', as you are proving, is by no means silent - but only all too keen to admonish those with non-heteronormative views. Finally: 'seed' a woman? Are you for real? I'm glad I'm not your wife!
I think the jury is still out as to whether people are born that way...If it is genetic then all twins of gay people will themselves be gay as they share the same genetic code...?? Could someone brought up in an overly effeminate enviroment during the primary years subconsciously imbalance thier hormonal release during early puberty...Thereby affecting orientation?? I don't know the answers to that, and I don't reckon anyone does...
What my beef is, as with the majority of people.. Is the fact that we and especially our children are being socially engineered younger and younger to accept homosexuality as an absolute equal and that it is completel natural for a man to put an organ genetically designed to penetrate and seed a woman into somewhere that is designed to get rid of waste products... a lot of people do revile at the thought of this.. I believe that gay people should'nt be attacked nor mocked and thier preference is thiers alone but it should not be thrust upon children and vulnerable people in an almost sinister fashion by some quarters which the SILENT majority often read as perverted.. Its the establishments obsession with sex that people are getting sick of.
The scorn heaped on those who question it sticks in my throat. So my forefathers, who went over the top at the somme and who spent thier lives down a filthy coalmine are ignorant bigots are they...?
And would you bigots please be so kind as to stop terming sexuality a 'preference' - I for one have never felt a choice in the matter.
John Justice
says...
11:23pm Fri 28 Oct 11
Dean M
says...
11:39pm Fri 28 Oct 11
.
Hee hee. Well said, big boy. Your place or mine tonight?
MBC2011
says...
12:27am Sat 29 Oct 11
Nick Scott wrote:Well Nick, you'd be very wrong in thinking I'm militant in any way; but if you or any of the other brain dead bigots on here thinks that gay people will just sit down and keep quiet when opinionated fools like yourself and the misguided crow who sent this letter take a pop at gay people, then you'd be very wrong on that count too. Shall I tell you why a small proportion of gay people 'flaunt' their sexuality in public? Now listen up, as this may well be a groundbreaking revelation: they do it to prove a point to intolerant people like you. So why don't you and your fellow insecure friends put a lid on it, stop writing intolerant letters to the Northern Echo, and thus stop provoking retaliatory demonstrations from the gay community?
MBC2011, I think you must be one of the militant gays that are getting up everone's nose. You may or may not have a choice about how you feel, people may or may not care. What the vast majority of people aren't comfortable with and don't want is people parading their sexuality in public, and particularly introducing the idea of homosexuality as normal in schools.
.
Just keep it to yourself and I'm sure everyone can get on just fine.
antihypocrisy
says...
8:56am Sat 29 Oct 11
John Justice
says...
9:05am Sat 29 Oct 11
miketually
says...
9:39am Sat 29 Oct 11
Wasn't the same said about mixed marriages? Or desegregation? "I don't mind the negroes being free, but why do they insist on a seat in the white peoples' bus?"
Why do the blacks, Irish and dogs want to stay in this B&B anyway?
miketually
says...
9:40am Sat 29 Oct 11
Bob Bob
says...
12:01pm Sat 29 Oct 11
Yawn! No.
Organisations and governments tying aid to the imposition of their own moral standards isn't anything new.
In the US those who would like to see abortion illegal are strangling charities (in the US and abroad) by cutting US government funding if the organisation even advises on abortion being an option.
If you want to get your anger juices really going reserve it for the arguable crime against humanity that is the activity of various churches in sub-Saharan Africa attaching aid with the preaching against the use of condoms.
It has contributed to a HIV infection rate as high as 25% and in some cases reduced life-expectancy of whole nations into the low thirties
miketually
says...
2:57pm Sat 29 Oct 11
miketually
says...
3:51pm Sat 29 Oct 11
Could a gay couple walk down the street, holding hands, without fear?
Dean M
says...
5:24pm Sat 29 Oct 11
.
Talking of which, RIP Sir Jimmy.
antihypocrisy
says...
6:39pm Sat 29 Oct 11
The OP letter made no mention of promoting gay lifestyle still lets not let fact get in the way of bigotry.... have a great night in cyber land tonight (those of you with no other life)...see ya Monday
spragger
says...
8:28pm Sat 29 Oct 11
MBC2011 wrote:'they do it to prove a point to intolerant people like you'
Nick Scott wrote:Well Nick, you'd be very wrong in thinking I'm militant in any way; but if you or any of the other brain dead bigots on here thinks that gay people will just sit down and keep quiet when opinionated fools like yourself and the misguided crow who sent this letter take a pop at gay people, then you'd be very wrong on that count too. Shall I tell you why a small proportion of gay people 'flaunt' their sexuality in public? Now listen up, as this may well be a groundbreaking revelation: they do it to prove a point to intolerant people like you. So why don't you and your fellow insecure friends put a lid on it, stop writing intolerant letters to the Northern Echo, and thus stop provoking retaliatory demonstrations from the gay community?
MBC2011, I think you must be one of the militant gays that are getting up everone's nose. You may or may not have a choice about how you feel, people may or may not care. What the vast majority of people aren't comfortable with and don't want is people parading their sexuality in public, and particularly introducing the idea of homosexuality as normal in schools.
.
Just keep it to yourself and I'm sure everyone can get on just fine.
Are you sure? Is that what most would say?
Most of it looks like childish attention seeker
Part of modern societies trend of self entitlement
Most would be happy to just get on with it in the privacy of their own home
tomtopper
says...
12:12am Sun 30 Oct 11
MBC2011 wrote:You miss my point... You call people bigots, victorian etc for not sharing your 'let it all hang out' progressive view on things... As most people whom lost thier lives in the first and second world wars and the previous hard working generations shared these same 'keep it to yourself' views as put forward by most commentors on here.. You're saying that those people are intolerant bigots too..are you not??? Or are you so above everyone on here that you know if they came back they would agree with you..??
tomtopper wrote:Tom - what on earth does your grandfather fighting in world war one have to do with this? Are you really attempting to justify your Victorian moral codes by holding up the patriot card? Would it be better that everyone enslave themselves to the accepted ideals of your grandfather because he helped fight a war? And how about the grandfathers of gay men? Believe me, the 'majority', as you are proving, is by no means silent - but only all too keen to admonish those with non-heteronormative views. Finally: 'seed' a woman? Are you for real? I'm glad I'm not your wife!
I think the jury is still out as to whether people are born that way...If it is genetic then all twins of gay people will themselves be gay as they share the same genetic code...?? Could someone brought up in an overly effeminate enviroment during the primary years subconsciously imbalance thier hormonal release during early puberty...Thereby affecting orientation?? I don't know the answers to that, and I don't reckon anyone does...
What my beef is, as with the majority of people.. Is the fact that we and especially our children are being socially engineered younger and younger to accept homosexuality as an absolute equal and that it is completel natural for a man to put an organ genetically designed to penetrate and seed a woman into somewhere that is designed to get rid of waste products... a lot of people do revile at the thought of this.. I believe that gay people should'nt be attacked nor mocked and thier preference is thiers alone but it should not be thrust upon children and vulnerable people in an almost sinister fashion by some quarters which the SILENT majority often read as perverted.. Its the establishments obsession with sex that people are getting sick of.
The scorn heaped on those who question it sticks in my throat. So my forefathers, who went over the top at the somme and who spent thier lives down a filthy coalmine are ignorant bigots are they...?
And would you bigots please be so kind as to stop terming sexuality a 'preference' - I for one have never felt a choice in the matter.
The problem with progressives is where is it all going to end..??
There's something very wrong in this rampant sexualisation of everything and everyone...
So to take your train of thought in a future setting say, thirty years down the line, It might well be prudish to disagree with the sexual age of consent, both straight and gay being when the youngster reaches puberty..??
That's progressives for you....
theBretwalda
says...
6:20am Sun 30 Oct 11
Gnasher1 wrote:Don't mention Godwin, don't mention Godwin, don't mention Godwin…
antihypocrisy wrote: Broad generalisation and even the McCanns mentioned... can this get any more ridiculous?Yes, someone could mention the 1800's.
CTRILEY
says...
9:06am Sun 30 Oct 11
CTRILEY
says...
9:27am Sun 30 Oct 11
Mistaked such as these happen when you write on the fly.
spragger
says...
6:47pm Sun 30 Oct 11
otherwise no one would have known. .
Scaremongering from 70 yrs ago does not help the case.
spragger
says...
7:47pm Sun 30 Oct 11
otherwise no one would have known. .
Scaremongering from 70 yrs ago does not help the case.
spragger
says...
7:47pm Sun 30 Oct 11
otherwise no one would have known. .
Scaremongering from 70 yrs ago does not help the case.
CliveA
says...
7:52pm Sun 30 Oct 11
-
There are many countries in potential receipt of UK aid where homosexuality is punished by the state with violence or imprisonment, or where persecution and even murder is tolerated and even encouraged.
-
Contrast that with the predictable "I don't mind what they do in their bedrooms if they don't force it down my throat" canards we read here.
-
That's just the point. There are many countries where non-heterosexual people cannot simply 'do what they like in privacy'. They are dragged away, beaten, imprisoned and killed.
-
To read some of the comments on this story, you'd be forgiven for thinking the British Government is, in some unfathomable way, endeavouring to 'convert' people to being gay. They, of course, are not. They are simply taking a stand by saying that a country that punishes its own people (in often awful ways) for being gay should not receive assistance paid by our taxes. And I am pleased they are making this distinction on our behalf.
-
The nature/nurture debate is utterly irrelevant here, as are proclamations of 'the right to disapprove'. Disapprove all you like. That's your prerogative. But unless you agree that gays and lesbians should be punished, tortured or killed by their own governments, surely the only reasonable thing to do is to be grateful that our government is refusing to assist the leadership of countries with such twisted ideas of justice.
-
Unless you also like to see such practices taking place. Do you?
John Justice
says...
10:43pm Sun 30 Oct 11
There has been many comments made about the issue in these pages to such an extent I feel that we need to pull the plug on this issue. One final thought. This government says that this country is a tolerant society yet has implemented laws to criminalise and remove the right to work of people who genuinely and constructively through personal feelings or deep seated religious beliefs object to homosexuality. Is that a tolerant society?. The powers ruling this country and those supporting homosexuality need to understand and be aware that forcing people to accept and respect homosexuality through the force of the criminal law and loosing their jobs is not going to solve the issue and people will go about their daily lives as a silent and fearful populace. There were countries in the not to distant past where people were frightened to voice their opinions for fear of being imprisoned.
CTRILEY
says...
6:24am Mon 31 Oct 11
John Justice
says...
6:56am Mon 31 Oct 11
CliveA
says...
9:58am Mon 31 Oct 11
-
Really John? Really? Does it compare with the punishments that await people in many countries for people who are gay? More draconian than that? Because that is what this is really about, not the imagined persecution of people muttering behind their Daily Mails.
CliveA
says...
9:59am Mon 31 Oct 11
-
Really John? Really? Does it compare with the punishments that await people in many countries for people who are gay? More draconian than that? Because that is what this is really about, not the imagined persecution of people muttering behind their Daily Mails.
melwilson
says...
1:40pm Mon 31 Oct 11
I initially thought that Susan Willis was just taking the micky to get a rise but then I see comments from our regular homophobic to55ers & realised that actually, we really do live in a sad little world.
I'm PROUD that my kids know about homosexuality & that they know it isn't wrong - it's about time this b0ll0cks was knocked on the head.
Fuming .....
antihypocrisy
says...
2:06pm Mon 31 Oct 11
melwilson wrote:Dont get stressed of the idiots like SW and the usual bigots on here Mel, they will never and, if they're really honest, aren't ABLE to see common sense, decency and real humanity. They enjoy their hateful opinions, it gives them something to live for.
What a massive pile of SH1T!!!!
I initially thought that Susan Willis was just taking the micky to get a rise but then I see comments from our regular homophobic to55ers & realised that actually, we really do live in a sad little world.
I'm PROUD that my kids know about homosexuality & that they know it isn't wrong - it's about time this b0ll0cks was knocked on the head.
Fuming .....
antihypocrisy
says...
2:07pm Mon 31 Oct 11
miketually
says...
2:55pm Mon 31 Oct 11
But, it's not available online. The other letters on this issue are also not available online.
So, this remains the most read article on the site, hitting triple figures for comments, and the paper appears to only be showing one side of the story.
JohnSmith2
says...
3:28pm Mon 31 Oct 11
You say the homosexuals should keep their choices behind closed doors... maybe you religious folk should do the same.
CTRILEY
says...
6:00pm Mon 31 Oct 11
How we respond is the true measure of us as people.
spragger
says...
7:46pm Mon 31 Oct 11
nature / nuture is key as we are having the nature angle rammed down our throats, without any absolute evidence.
Pro nature try to gloss over this and hope if they continue to rant/ shout/ accuse it will become a fact.
Show your absolute proof, or join the debate . .
CliveA
says...
8:12pm Mon 31 Oct 11
-
When oppressive governments are imprisoning and beating their citizens, then yes, I assert, it is utterly irrelevant whether their sexuality is chosen or not.
-
If it *were* the case that sexuality was a choice, are you suggesting that the persecution in countries like Uganda is in any way justified? Is it something you're happy to support?
John Justice
says...
8:45pm Mon 31 Oct 11
John Justice
says...
8:45pm Mon 31 Oct 11
CTRILEY
says...
9:06pm Mon 31 Oct 11
spragger wrote:For the first six weeks after conception the foetus will undergo cellular division to acquire cellular mass. At around the sixth week DNA will kick in to create either a male or female. However the DNA has to determine not just the sex of the body but also of the brain, this is done by the mother releasing various levels of hormones. If the process works correctly then the result is heterosexual make or female, however external chemical influences can affect the hormone levels.
'The nature/nurture debate is utterly irrelevant here, as are proclamations of 'the right to disapprove' nature / nuture is key as we are having the nature angle rammed down our throats, without any absolute evidence. Pro nature try to gloss over this and hope if they continue to rant/ shout/ accuse it will become a fact. Show your absolute proof, or join the debate . .
Even if the DNA is to build a male, if no testosterone is released to counteract female hormone then the body goes to the default sex which is female. This creates someone who has male chromosomes but is physically female; with the exception that they don’t have a womb as the DNA isn’t told to develop one.
Evidence taken from the brains of heterosexuals and gays show those differences within the size of specific parts of the brain. This means that this part of the brain within a gay man is of the same size as that of a woman and vice-versa. How hormones cause these parts of the brain to develop determine varying aspects of our sexuality from heterosexual, gay, bisexual, cross-dress, etc. If the hormones levels sex of the brain doesn’t match those of the body the result can be someone with the brain of one sex and the body of another (transgender), which can only be cured by a sex change.
Whilst imbalances in the hormone levels affecting the body determine if we are born male, female, an effeminate man, a masculine woman or intersexed (the modern term for a hermaphrodite). These same hormonal and chemical influences which affect our sexuality and sexual orientation also affect the development of our physical bodies helping to determine if we are born able bodied or disabled. These are influenced by external chemical influences such as drugs, alcohol, the high levels of estrogen found within the water supply.
If this were otherwise then thalidomide wouldn’t cause birth defects; women taking drugs such as heroin during pregnancy doesn’t lead to drug addicted babies or there would be no such thing as a hermaphrodite.
A poor argument reflects a lack of knowledge on the matter.
Top of the hill
says...
11:24pm Mon 31 Oct 11
sablepoot1967
says...
11:27pm Mon 31 Oct 11
Why do so many people believe in what the bibe says?......Its a book of fairy tales, you daft people! Burn it and start living in the real world!
sablepoot1967
says...
11:33pm Mon 31 Oct 11
JohnSmith2 wrote:Well said John.
I like the way the 'tolerant christians' say homosexuality is a choice, and that groups should not promote this lifestyle and shove it down everyone else's throats, yet they CHOOSE to follow their religion, form into groups and dedicate their time not only to ramming their views down our throats if the opportunity arises but also knocking on our doors and trying to scare us into joining their groups.
You say the homosexuals should keep their choices behind closed doors... maybe you religious folk should do the same.
sablepoot1967
says...
11:33pm Mon 31 Oct 11
JohnSmith2 wrote:Well said John.
I like the way the 'tolerant christians' say homosexuality is a choice, and that groups should not promote this lifestyle and shove it down everyone else's throats, yet they CHOOSE to follow their religion, form into groups and dedicate their time not only to ramming their views down our throats if the opportunity arises but also knocking on our doors and trying to scare us into joining their groups.
You say the homosexuals should keep their choices behind closed doors... maybe you religious folk should do the same.
sablepoot1967
says...
11:44pm Mon 31 Oct 11
EliasW wrote:Ha ha Elias, you so belong to the dark ages!!!!
Homosexualy is a crime, Full stop. I worked in London for 15 years, once a week we went for an evening out to Chelsea, it was an eye opener. For what its worth these people do not look happy, comfortable, relaxed and were living on their nerves. It needs to be said that many homosexuals are very depressed and suicidal. Many flit in and out of relationships and when people say 'someones promiscuous' they often mean 'like homosexuals'. If the medical profession was to speak out they would endorse these views. Why are they homosexuals? mostly because they got wrongly influenced at an early age to take part in mutual masturbation meetings and sordid sexual experiences with others. It all stemmed from there. Its not genetic, but it does alter the mental genetic code. The worst must be the Transvestites, men who pretend to be women, I have met a lot of sad cases and this is what we are talking about, sad, dirty, grubby men hanging around toilets and seeking rent boys. Its illegal.
Homosexuality is a crime? I dont think so.
And maybe the homosexuals you say that are depressed and suicidal, are so, because of stupid minded people like you!
EliasW
says...
5:34am Tue 1 Nov 11
In a previous post I wrote about I wrote about going to Chelsea in London for nights out. There are dozens of pubs in this area with some being whats called Gay Pubs. By this I mean 100-200 men all q-------. Again in London we saw the entrances to toilets crowded with men looking for random picks ups. Another pub sold drugs and drug dealers walked around the tables selling drugs quite openly. This is what I think of when you mention homosexuals. Male Homosexuals. Just a quick glance told you they were sick, both in body and mind. Could they be cured, I don't think so, they had self-hypnotised themselves into adopting a sexual beliefs and mannerisms which were of long standing and now ingrained in their character. To me it was disgustings, to others I was with it was funny and to be laughed at. We had never seen men wearing make up, pearls, necklaces and artificial nails. They were pantomine clowns in March, in June and in August and their stage was seedy bars and male gatherings.
I am a man, I am also a Brit, and abroad I am an Englishman and this is my England. And I think its a disgrace and so I am proud to be homophobic.
Millions of us are and always will be. I / we do not think men should wear womens tights or earings or necklaces or pretend to be women. An handful of Judges do not represent my views, nor should Politicians chasing votes be allowed to stamp on my beliefs. Changing the Law was not done with my approval or blessing and I stand shoulder to shoulder with the boarding house keeper who sent 2 men packing. Our majority views are whats counts - so we want the law changed back for sanity to be restored.
CTRILEY
says...
6:16am Tue 1 Nov 11
johnny_p
says...
6:34am Tue 1 Nov 11
You seem to have spent a lot of time hanging around in areas frequented by gay people, and yet still have very strong outspoken beliefs about the matter.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"......
Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222–230
GOOD_GRIEF
says...
10:06am Tue 1 Nov 11
We've all played into the grubby hands of the Editor, Peter Barron, who will be rubbing them with glee with the amount of publicity this has got his paper!
I really didn't want to comment on this for that very reason, however I just want to add some things: Most of these negative homophobic posts are saying that gays are dirty old men who spend their time in dingy dens of iniquity having been dragged up in sexually depraved surroundings.
So are you calling me (a female) a dirty old man for being a lesbian? You'll love me even more when I say I'm a lesbian who is a teacher!!
Lets get some things straight (pardon the pun). Gay and homosexual are terms used for anybody, man or woman, who is attracted by the same sex. Quite frankly I don't care whether people like my sexuality or not. I don't ram it down peoples throats, but I don't hide it either. Just the same as most hetro sexual couples.
Gay does not mean pervert, paedophile, weirdo etc. I'm quite sure there will be some gay people who are, just like there are hetrosexual perverts/weirdos/pae
dophiles etc.
You can keep your views, if you think being gay is wrong, that's entirely your prerogative. But please get your facts right before spouting utter crap.
PS: Can we have a little bit more correct spelling and grammar? Is it really that hard?! It is your native tongue after-all!
Paul6588
says...
10:10am Tue 1 Nov 11
I can only imagine EliasW is some kind of joke account, parodying the tragically ignorant views which a tiny minority of people have. I can't think of any other explanation as I have never considered it possible for someone to be *that* ignorant and narrow minded.
EliasW
says...
11:48am Tue 1 Nov 11
johnny_p wrote:Johnny,
Elias-
You seem to have spent a lot of time hanging around in areas frequented by gay people, and yet still have very strong outspoken beliefs about the matter.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"......
Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222–230
Can you name one part of London that's not plagued by those of that ilk?
We didn't hang sround those areas, we 6 men working at London Airport liked Chelsea because at night that's where the good looking women were. Surely men getting married to each other is beyond belief. I've never seen a man in a white wedding dress and wearing a veil, it must be hell-of-a-sight, are'nt the photos a bit funny looking if the brides got a 2 day stubble.
Stockton_boy
says...
12:24pm Tue 1 Nov 11
its only me again
says...
1:34pm Tue 1 Nov 11
What about being gay AND having ginger hair !!!!!!!
Dean M
says...
2:06pm Tue 1 Nov 11
CTRILEY wrote:Don't say that CTR, not on this thread!
EliasW, you're an arsehole.
.
Imagine the excitement you've caused..
its only me again
says...
2:25pm Tue 1 Nov 11
Dean M wrote:;)
CTRILEY wrote:Don't say that CTR, not on this thread!
EliasW, you're an arsehole.
.
Imagine the excitement you've caused..
MBC2011
says...
4:01pm Tue 1 Nov 11
tomtopper wrote:Mr Topper, I did not miss your point; I understood it perfectly. The problem with it was that it wasn't so much a 'point' as a vague, cheap stab in the direction of heritage and patriotism. The gentlemen -- our forefathers -- that you speak of, shared views that were prevalent getting on for a century ago now. Can you tell me, if you share those same views, and the fact that they fought a war (which has nothing to do with this issue) is justification for their views, whether you also live your life the same way they did in other respects, too? Do you listen to a Bakelite radio rather than a TV? Do you renounce modern advancements in medicine, the internet, supermarkets, washing machines and dishwashers? I imagine not. If you are so keen to embrace advancements in science, politics and the modern market place, why do you think it acceptable to hold up the anachronistic views of the last century as still relevant and acceptable in 2011? If your forefathers were around now, I'm sure they'd be ashamed of your inability to keep up with the times, like so many others amongst the intelligent people on this forum who are reading your bizarre comments.
MBC2011 wrote:You miss my point... You call people bigots, victorian etc for not sharing your 'let it all hang out' progressive view on things... As most people whom lost thier lives in the first and second world wars and the previous hard working generations shared these same 'keep it to yourself' views as put forward by most commentors on here.. You're saying that those people are intolerant bigots too..are you not??? Or are you so above everyone on here that you know if they came back they would agree with you..??
tomtopper wrote:Tom - what on earth does your grandfather fighting in world war one have to do with this? Are you really attempting to justify your Victorian moral codes by holding up the patriot card? Would it be better that everyone enslave themselves to the accepted ideals of your grandfather because he helped fight a war? And how about the grandfathers of gay men? Believe me, the 'majority', as you are proving, is by no means silent - but only all too keen to admonish those with non-heteronormative views. Finally: 'seed' a woman? Are you for real? I'm glad I'm not your wife!
I think the jury is still out as to whether people are born that way...If it is genetic then all twins of gay people will themselves be gay as they share the same genetic code...?? Could someone brought up in an overly effeminate enviroment during the primary years subconsciously imbalance thier hormonal release during early puberty...Thereby affecting orientation?? I don't know the answers to that, and I don't reckon anyone does...
What my beef is, as with the majority of people.. Is the fact that we and especially our children are being socially engineered younger and younger to accept homosexuality as an absolute equal and that it is completel natural for a man to put an organ genetically designed to penetrate and seed a woman into somewhere that is designed to get rid of waste products... a lot of people do revile at the thought of this.. I believe that gay people should'nt be attacked nor mocked and thier preference is thiers alone but it should not be thrust upon children and vulnerable people in an almost sinister fashion by some quarters which the SILENT majority often read as perverted.. Its the establishments obsession with sex that people are getting sick of.
The scorn heaped on those who question it sticks in my throat. So my forefathers, who went over the top at the somme and who spent thier lives down a filthy coalmine are ignorant bigots are they...?
And would you bigots please be so kind as to stop terming sexuality a 'preference' - I for one have never felt a choice in the matter.
The problem with progressives is where is it all going to end..??
There's something very wrong in this rampant sexualisation of everything and everyone...
So to take your train of thought in a future setting say, thirty years down the line, It might well be prudish to disagree with the sexual age of consent, both straight and gay being when the youngster reaches puberty..??
That's progressives for you....
Do any of you homophobes have a degree, by the way? I'd be very interested to compare the social differences that exist between the respective tolerant, and intolerant, groups who have decamped over this issue. Forgive the pun ;)
MBC2011
says...
4:02pm Tue 1 Nov 11
tomtopper wrote:Mr Topper, I did not miss your point; I understood it perfectly. The problem with it was that it wasn't so much a 'point' as a vague, cheap stab in the direction of heritage and patriotism. The gentlemen -- our forefathers -- that you speak of, shared views that were prevalent getting on for a century ago now. Can you tell me, if you share those same views, and the fact that they fought a war (which has nothing to do with this issue) is justification for their views, whether you also live your life the same way they did in other respects, too? Do you listen to a Bakelite radio rather than a TV? Do you renounce modern advancements in medicine, the internet, supermarkets, washing machines and dishwashers? I imagine not. If you are so keen to embrace advancements in science, politics and the modern market place, why do you think it acceptable to hold up the anachronistic views of the last century as still relevant and acceptable in 2011? If your forefathers were around now, I'm sure they'd be ashamed of your inability to keep up with the times, like so many others amongst the intelligent people on this forum who are reading your bizarre comments.
MBC2011 wrote:You miss my point... You call people bigots, victorian etc for not sharing your 'let it all hang out' progressive view on things... As most people whom lost thier lives in the first and second world wars and the previous hard working generations shared these same 'keep it to yourself' views as put forward by most commentors on here.. You're saying that those people are intolerant bigots too..are you not??? Or are you so above everyone on here that you know if they came back they would agree with you..??
tomtopper wrote:Tom - what on earth does your grandfather fighting in world war one have to do with this? Are you really attempting to justify your Victorian moral codes by holding up the patriot card? Would it be better that everyone enslave themselves to the accepted ideals of your grandfather because he helped fight a war? And how about the grandfathers of gay men? Believe me, the 'majority', as you are proving, is by no means silent - but only all too keen to admonish those with non-heteronormative views. Finally: 'seed' a woman? Are you for real? I'm glad I'm not your wife!
I think the jury is still out as to whether people are born that way...If it is genetic then all twins of gay people will themselves be gay as they share the same genetic code...?? Could someone brought up in an overly effeminate enviroment during the primary years subconsciously imbalance thier hormonal release during early puberty...Thereby affecting orientation?? I don't know the answers to that, and I don't reckon anyone does...
What my beef is, as with the majority of people.. Is the fact that we and especially our children are being socially engineered younger and younger to accept homosexuality as an absolute equal and that it is completel natural for a man to put an organ genetically designed to penetrate and seed a woman into somewhere that is designed to get rid of waste products... a lot of people do revile at the thought of this.. I believe that gay people should'nt be attacked nor mocked and thier preference is thiers alone but it should not be thrust upon children and vulnerable people in an almost sinister fashion by some quarters which the SILENT majority often read as perverted.. Its the establishments obsession with sex that people are getting sick of.
The scorn heaped on those who question it sticks in my throat. So my forefathers, who went over the top at the somme and who spent thier lives down a filthy coalmine are ignorant bigots are they...?
And would you bigots please be so kind as to stop terming sexuality a 'preference' - I for one have never felt a choice in the matter.
The problem with progressives is where is it all going to end..??
There's something very wrong in this rampant sexualisation of everything and everyone...
So to take your train of thought in a future setting say, thirty years down the line, It might well be prudish to disagree with the sexual age of consent, both straight and gay being when the youngster reaches puberty..??
That's progressives for you....
Do any of you homophobes have a degree, by the way? I'd be very interested to compare the social differences that exist between the respective tolerant, and intolerant, groups who have decamped over this issue. Forgive the pun ;)
Top of the hill
says...
4:25pm Tue 1 Nov 11
Stockton_boy wrote:Firstly, I should point out that this post was started with inclusive bigoted, homophobic, unfounded comments, "Privately, most people regard homosexuals as perverts.
Whatever happened to the time when someone was gay, he quietly lead his life. The world now demands legislated respect and preferential treatment. For the avoidance of doubt Gay is not normal otherwise as a race we would extinct.
The media, even The Northern Echo, give the false impression they are accepted as normal. "
The posters original questioning of the government withdrawing overseas aid to countries where homosexuality is illegal is a fair and questionable point and could have lead to just as long a debate. However, the original post is obviously going to provoke normal minded people to question the original posters comments. And, unfortunately, that in its turn is going to "outrage" the Internet Trolls into talking complete and utter rubbish about a subject they have quite clearly proven they know very little about. I'm with MBC2011 on this one.
Stockton_boy
says...
4:27pm Tue 1 Nov 11
Top of the hill
says...
4:33pm Tue 1 Nov 11
its only me again wrote:Ginger tolerant? Are you joking??? ;o)
This is a lengthy post isn't it. Allow me to pose another question:
What about being gay AND having ginger hair !!!!!!!
The whole of this thread is actually a bit of a joke, as if it had been, "I WAS not aware that the British government did not allow armed guards on ships off Somalia.
Privately, most people regard black people as robbers and thieves.
The media, even The Northern Echo, give the false impression they are accepted as normal.", there would have been absolute outrage and the letter would have been pulled immediately. But, for some reason the Northern Echo seem to find verbal gay bashing okay.
The mind boggles. It will be interesting to see if this post remains!
Top of the hill
says...
4:42pm Tue 1 Nov 11
delboy1977 wrote:Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant. I am more concerned with what will happen if one of your kids does turn out to be gay. In fact that applies to many on here. What are you going to do if one of your kids or grandkids does turn out to be gay? Will you ostracise them just being who they are?
I don't agree with people being gay, but what people do behind there own door is up to them, the only time it would be a problem for me is if one of my own children admitted to being gay ! i would not be able to condone this !! i recently worked in Nigeria and if you are caught with another man you are taken into the street and beaten and flogged !!
johnny_p
says...
4:43pm Tue 1 Nov 11
EliasW wrote:I can't Elias. I've worked a lot in London, but have never really noticed "them". I guess though if you look hard enough you'll find "them".
johnny_p wrote:Johnny,
Elias-
You seem to have spent a lot of time hanging around in areas frequented by gay people, and yet still have very strong outspoken beliefs about the matter.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"......
Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222–230
Can you name one part of London that's not plagued by those of that ilk?
We didn't hang sround those areas, we 6 men working at London Airport liked Chelsea because at night that's where the good looking women were. Surely men getting married to each other is beyond belief. I've never seen a man in a white wedding dress and wearing a veil, it must be hell-of-a-sight, are'nt the photos a bit funny looking if the brides got a 2 day stubble.
Now come on- please be honest. When you were "out in Chelsea because that's where all the good looking women were" with your friends, who was wearing what? Let me guess....? An American Indian, LA Traffic Cop, Construction Worker, Cowboy. Which one were you?
Whilst I'm neither pro, nor anti gay I won't judge you. You're anonymous here.... a good chance to explain how you really feel?
Top of the hill
says...
4:45pm Tue 1 Nov 11
Stockton_boy wrote:Sorry Stockton_boy, that just doesn't make any sense at all.
Call it Hompohobia, call it what you like at the end of that day, if **** between two consenting adults of the opposite sex is for perverts, then surely homosexuality is one of the worst kinds of perversion.
Top of the hill
says...
4:45pm Tue 1 Nov 11
Stockton_boy wrote:Sorry Stockton_boy, that just doesn't make any sense at all.
Call it Hompohobia, call it what you like at the end of that day, if **** between two consenting adults of the opposite sex is for perverts, then surely homosexuality is one of the worst kinds of perversion.
Top of the hill
says...
4:53pm Tue 1 Nov 11
johnny_p
says...
4:55pm Tue 1 Nov 11
Top of the hill wrote:Yeah- gave me a headache just trying to read it. What do you mean "Stockton_Boy" (can I judge you by your name)?
Stockton_boy wrote:Sorry Stockton_boy, that just doesn't make any sense at all.
Call it Hompohobia, call it what you like at the end of that day, if **** between two consenting adults of the opposite sex is for perverts, then surely homosexuality is one of the worst kinds of perversion.
Paul6588
says...
4:57pm Tue 1 Nov 11
delboy1977 wrote:"I don't agree with people being gay" is as idiotic a thing to say as "I don't agree with people being female" or "I don't agree with people being English" That's the way someone is born and you just have to accept it.
I don't agree with people being gay, but what people do behind there own door is up to them, the only time it would be a problem for me is if one of my own children admitted to being gay ! i would not be able to condone this !! i recently worked in Nigeria and if you are caught with another man you are taken into the street and beaten and flogged !!
Also, I hope one of your children does turn out to be gay because it might broaden your mind a bit.
Dean M
says...
5:02pm Tue 1 Nov 11
Top of the hill
says...
5:18pm Tue 1 Nov 11
Dean M wrote:Subtle difference, but to say "I think most people" rather than "most people" would be an opinion rather than an expression of fact. As I say, subtle difference, but a very important one - in my opinion! ;o)
But is it 'verbal gay bashing'? If someone expresses their opinion that 'privately, most people regard homosexuals as perverts' that's just an opinion to which they are entitled, surely? It's also an opinion that I suspect most people don't agree with.
Top of the hill
says...
5:20pm Tue 1 Nov 11
Dean M wrote:I see what you were referring to now. I was actually not specifically commenting on the letter, rather the subsequent posts with regard to verbal gay bashing - dirty old men in macs - picking up rent boys - all gays being transvestites, etc...
But is it 'verbal gay bashing'? If someone expresses their opinion that 'privately, most people regard homosexuals as perverts' that's just an opinion to which they are entitled, surely? It's also an opinion that I suspect most people don't agree with.
Dean M
says...
5:47pm Tue 1 Nov 11
.
And yes, there has been a lot of subsequent 'verbal gay bashing'!
spragger
says...
6:30pm Tue 1 Nov 11
sablepoot1967 wrote:and your evidence amounts to a rant?
I dont think being homosexual is a life choice, its the something you're born with. Who would decide to live a life of homosexuality with so many stupid minded people, and stupid bloody bible bashers that make their life hell!
Why do so many people believe in what the bibe says?......Its a book of fairy tales, you daft people! Burn it and start living in the real world!
Where is the objective proof other than a set of words that justifies nothing.
The fact is no one knows whether it is nature / nurture
That is why all the pro nature folk blow off so much steam, because they don't have an argument. They dredge up all sorts of specious stuff.
Put up, or shut up.
Gnasher1
says...
6:42pm Tue 1 Nov 11
Top of the hill
says...
8:34pm Tue 1 Nov 11
Gnasher1 wrote:But would you want to live in Russia?
Dmitri Antonov had the best idea to resolve this unnatural perversion.
phambling`
says...
8:42pm Tue 1 Nov 11
Becca.
says...
8:46pm Tue 1 Nov 11
Becca.
says...
8:46pm Tue 1 Nov 11
CTRILEY
says...
9:01pm Tue 1 Nov 11
The Jewish, Christian and Islamic faiths which had shaped our view on many things has a history not only of intolerance towards other races, cultures and religions, executes those who are gay or cross-dress, yet permits the sexual abuse of children.
Archaeological and written evidence (such as the Brehon Laws) shows that not only were the Celtic, Germanic and Classical races incredibly tolerant towards other races and religions, but cross-dressing and being gay were considered as normal (Achilles the hero of the Iliad dressed and lived as a woman before fighting at Troy), but these applied the death penalty to those who sexually abused children.
Think about that one?
Gnasher1
says...
9:17pm Tue 1 Nov 11
Becca. wrote:Are you smacked up?
I think some people are so ignorant. If 2 people (ANY 2 people) love each other and want to be together then why should small minded people stop them? For the record if my son or daughter grow up and make the decision that they are gay then I will be happy as long as they are happy and the person they choose to be with treats them well.
JohnSmith2
says...
9:30am Wed 2 Nov 11
Gnasher1 wrote:Did he try to "rape the gay out of them" like they do in some of the countries we don't want to give aid to?
Dmitri Antonov had the best idea to resolve this unnatural perversion.
How does that lie with everyone's moral compass?
Top of the hill
says...
11:25am Wed 2 Nov 11
Gnasher1 wrote:Very intelligent response there Gnasher1. Just in case you don't notice it, that was me being sarcastic. I think you misunderstood the old saying that goes, "Just think of something stupid to say, then don't say it."
Becca. wrote:Are you smacked up?
I think some people are so ignorant. If 2 people (ANY 2 people) love each other and want to be together then why should small minded people stop them? For the record if my son or daughter grow up and make the decision that they are gay then I will be happy as long as they are happy and the person they choose to be with treats them well.
Top of the hill
says...
11:27am Wed 2 Nov 11
Becca. wrote:Well said Becca. Just remember that for most it is not a decision though.
I think some people are so ignorant. If 2 people (ANY 2 people) love each other and want to be together then why should small minded people stop them? For the record if my son or daughter grow up and make the decision that they are gay then I will be happy as long as they are happy and the person they choose to be with treats them well.
Becca.
says...
4:56pm Wed 2 Nov 11
Top of the hill wrote:Fair point, I suppose for many the right word would be realisation rather than decision. I stand by everything else I said though, and for the record I'm not "smacked up" but thanks for asking Gnasher1!
Becca. wrote:Well said Becca. Just remember that for most it is not a decision though.
I think some people are so ignorant. If 2 people (ANY 2 people) love each other and want to be together then why should small minded people stop them? For the record if my son or daughter grow up and make the decision that they are gay then I will be happy as long as they are happy and the person they choose to be with treats them well.
Gnasher1
says...
4:56pm Wed 2 Nov 11
Top of the hill wrote:Are you smacked up? ;)
Gnasher1 wrote:Very intelligent response there Gnasher1. Just in case you don't notice it, that was me being sarcastic. I think you misunderstood the old saying that goes, "Just think of something stupid to say, then don't say it."
Becca. wrote:Are you smacked up?
I think some people are so ignorant. If 2 people (ANY 2 people) love each other and want to be together then why should small minded people stop them? For the record if my son or daughter grow up and make the decision that they are gay then I will be happy as long as they are happy and the person they choose to be with treats them well.
stiv
says...
6:27pm Wed 2 Nov 11
21jax21
says...
7:15pm Wed 2 Nov 11
Dean M
says...
9:32pm Wed 2 Nov 11
.
A friend of mine, who owns a confectionery company, was threatened with prosecution for a homophobic job advertisement.
.
How are you supposed to describe a fudge packer?
Sammie xx
says...
10:34pm Wed 2 Nov 11
Dante wrote:I have been bi-sexual for a couple of years and looking at this is so sad and untrue. Yes people have their views thoughts and such but by rejecting someone for this - what has this world come to can people not have different sexuality's without been judged, without been threatened and much more day in day out. I think that because of my sexuality I should not be classed as a 'pervert' for what I believe in and who I am day in day out. Many things are legal now i.e adopting as same sex couples and marriage so why should people be threatened to have aid withdrawn from overseas. In the media recently it has come apparent that army soldiers are now aloud in if they are homosexual. Someone tell me that they understand because we are now in the twentieth century not the olden times.
antihypocrisy wrote:NO, that is only your opinion. Many people finf homosexuality a perversion..........
Is this an old letter been found down the back of a desk, perhaps from the late 1800's? What a fascinating insight into how ignorant some people were then.
........like football, it's a matter of opinion, but unlike football, where you can still shout your dislike for an opposing team, people cannot say they oppose homosexuality.
As one old man said on Radio Cleveland many years ago,......"when I was a lad it was ilegal....now it's leagal and we have to embrace it, I only hope I'm dead before it's made compulsary"
As far as I'm concerned, "I'm not, they are, but don't try and make me accept them. I will not hurt them, but don't try to make me say what the do is ok, and if you will forgive the pun, which is not intended,...stop trying to push it down our throats......I will not push my sexuality on you, so please don't push yours on me. If you are not ashamed of what you do, then don't try to justify it all the time.
Remember what Shakspear said......"methinks the lady protesteh too much" and that is what I think, if homosexuals felt at ease witn their lifestyle, they would not need to justify it with the rest of the population, not now as it's legal.
CTRILEY
says...
12:02am Thu 3 Nov 11
During the mid 18th to early 19th century the idea image of an ideal man within English society was someone who wore wigs, make up, lace trimmed shirts and acted in an effeminate manner.
When pantomimes began lead male parts were played by women (i.e. Peter Pan) and female roles were played by men (such as the ugly sisters). During the Victorian people bearded ladies were in fact cross dressers.
During the 20th Century famous entertainers included a number of cross dressers such Arthur Lucan (Old Mother Riley), Bugs Bunny, Hinge and Bracket, Daniel Patrick Carroll (Danny La Rue), etc.
EliasW writes” We had never seen men wearing make up, pearls, necklaces and artificial nails.” We did, we also had a lot of ignorant and bigoted people.
funksoul201181
says...
12:25am Thu 3 Nov 11
stiv wrote:in jesus day children were married off young
The way this country is turning its back on the Holy Bibles morals, Its Homos and lesbians now, it will be Paedophile's next.
tomtopper
says...
12:52am Thu 3 Nov 11
CTRILEY wrote:I'm getting a bit sick of your 'wickipedia' cutting and pasting and plagarism of websites in an attempt to portray yourself as the hub of all knowledge..
Female roles within plays were once played by boys. Due the height of a teenage boy in relation to length of an adult women’s dress during the Elizabethan period, the dress would drag on the floor. This originated the term “drag” as applied to cross-dresser.
During the mid 18th to early 19th century the idea image of an ideal man within English society was someone who wore wigs, make up, lace trimmed shirts and acted in an effeminate manner.
When pantomimes began lead male parts were played by women (i.e. Peter Pan) and female roles were played by men (such as the ugly sisters). During the Victorian people bearded ladies were in fact cross dressers.
During the 20th Century famous entertainers included a number of cross dressers such Arthur Lucan (Old Mother Riley), Bugs Bunny, Hinge and Bracket, Daniel Patrick Carroll (Danny La Rue), etc.
EliasW writes” We had never seen men wearing make up, pearls, necklaces and artificial nails.” We did, we also had a lot of ignorant and bigoted people.
tomtopper
says...
2:26am Thu 3 Nov 11
CTRILEY wrote:I'm getting a bit sick of your 'wickipedia' cutting and pasting and plagarism of websites in an attempt to portray yourself as the hub of all knowledge..
Female roles within plays were once played by boys. Due the height of a teenage boy in relation to length of an adult women’s dress during the Elizabethan period, the dress would drag on the floor. This originated the term “drag” as applied to cross-dresser.
During the mid 18th to early 19th century the idea image of an ideal man within English society was someone who wore wigs, make up, lace trimmed shirts and acted in an effeminate manner.
When pantomimes began lead male parts were played by women (i.e. Peter Pan) and female roles were played by men (such as the ugly sisters). During the Victorian people bearded ladies were in fact cross dressers.
During the 20th Century famous entertainers included a number of cross dressers such Arthur Lucan (Old Mother Riley), Bugs Bunny, Hinge and Bracket, Daniel Patrick Carroll (Danny La Rue), etc.
EliasW writes” We had never seen men wearing make up, pearls, necklaces and artificial nails.” We did, we also had a lot of ignorant and bigoted people.
CTRILEY
says...
6:16am Thu 3 Nov 11
CTRILEY
says...
7:04am Thu 3 Nov 11
No disrespect to anyone, but rergardless of the subject some people are far too willing to let others tell them what to think, when we should be thinking for ourselves.
I don’t claim to be a hub of knowledge, but I do ask questions and combine what I've learnt from books, life experience, etc. and use them to form conclusions based on evidence and reasoned argument.
Gnasher1
says...
7:43am Thu 3 Nov 11
Dean M wrote:Quality!!
Trouble is though, the pushing of gay rights by the authorities goes too far.
.
A friend of mine, who owns a confectionery company, was threatened with prosecution for a homophobic job advertisement.
.
How are you supposed to describe a fudge packer?
Gnasher1
says...
7:48am Thu 3 Nov 11
21jax21 wrote:If your father had been a homo you would not be here to defend your perversion!!
Jesus was the ultimate gay man. He wore a dress and sandals and hung out exclusively with dudes (disciples). He never left home but could cater to the masses with one loaf and one fish. Only a gay man could pull that off! And please, before someone rides me about dresses and sandals on men being the norm way back then, well so was the bible the norm way back then. There are markings on cave walls that could teach me how to spear a dinosaur but I dont have to now since I can call my gay caterer to do the cooking for me. Thank god for those that actually evolve and dont sit in their jesus robes and sandals pontificating to those they disagree with over silly shyte. No one should flaunt their sexuality. But if you are str8 ask yourself, if you hold hands walking down the street with your beloved, are you flaunting your sexuality in the same regard as two men or two women holding hands? What then is the difference.
21jax21
says...
10:49am Thu 3 Nov 11
Gnasher1 wrote:Gnasher, my dad is a gay man. Unfortunately due to the hatred and bogotry back in the day he wasn't able to fully be himself and really fall in love with someone more suitable for him. Bless his heart, he had made a str8 marriage work for 53 years although he has never been a happy man. I wonder if years ago all the haters would still be hated if they knew how many people were condemned to live unhappy lives. Oh well, we can always look up to Kim Kardashian as she holds up your sanctity of marriage.
21jax21 wrote:If your father had been a homo you would not be here to defend your perversion!!
Jesus was the ultimate gay man. He wore a dress and sandals and hung out exclusively with dudes (disciples). He never left home but could cater to the masses with one loaf and one fish. Only a gay man could pull that off! And please, before someone rides me about dresses and sandals on men being the norm way back then, well so was the bible the norm way back then. There are markings on cave walls that could teach me how to spear a dinosaur but I dont have to now since I can call my gay caterer to do the cooking for me. Thank god for those that actually evolve and dont sit in their jesus robes and sandals pontificating to those they disagree with over silly shyte. No one should flaunt their sexuality. But if you are str8 ask yourself, if you hold hands walking down the street with your beloved, are you flaunting your sexuality in the same regard as two men or two women holding hands? What then is the difference.
I am from Canada where we worship freedom. Freedom to respect and cherish being exactly who we are born to be. When we as a nation protect minority rights, we are protecting our multicultural nature. We are reinforcing the Canada we value. We are saying, proudly and unflinchingly, that defending rights - not just those that happen to apply to us, not just that everyone approves of, but all fundamental rights - is at the very soul of what it means to be a Canadian.
This is a vital aspect of the values we hold dear and strive to pass on to others in the world who are embattled, who endure tyranny, whose freedoms are curtailed, whose rights are violated.
Just because I have the freedom and right to marry whomever I choose does not mean I can sit idly by while sanctimonious people decide for others how to live their lives in lesser nations. Britain and the US call themselves world leaders but how can they be when the most vulnerable members of their societies are not fully protected? I'm no mathemetician but even I can see that doesnt add up. Have a lovely day.
JohnSmith2
says...
11:32am Thu 3 Nov 11
stiv wrote:Another ignorant comment from a bible lover.
The way this country is turning its back on the Holy Bibles morals, Its Homos and lesbians now, it will be Paedophile's next.
You just compared consensual love between two adults to raping children.
I won't even bother to cite instances of religious organisations covering up child abuse as I'm sure you will simply ignore them.
21jax21
says...
11:42am Thu 3 Nov 11
JohnSmith2 wrote:I agree John, it is more acceptable for a priest to stick his *penis into little boys than it is for two adults to share their lives together in peace and harmony. After all the priest represents the very best of the bible. Suffer the children.
stiv wrote:Another ignorant comment from a bible lover.
The way this country is turning its back on the Holy Bibles morals, Its Homos and lesbians now, it will be Paedophile's next.
You just compared consensual love between two adults to raping children.
I won't even bother to cite instances of religious organisations covering up child abuse as I'm sure you will simply ignore them.
NotanotherNortherer
says...
1:22pm Thu 3 Nov 11
Shame on you all.
21jax21
says...
4:23pm Thu 3 Nov 11
Nick Scott wrote:Instead he realized his error and gave us his son who was gay. If God didn't intend to make gay people why did he end up making so many? Millions and millions of people are gay in this world and it's not because some meteor showered the earth!
Indeed, but if God had intended people to be gay he would have given us Adam and Steve.
Imagine if we all celebrated our differences and drew on the strengths and capabilities of all of God's children. Imagine if we all welcomed and respected divergent points of view to inform and enlighten us. We would depend on and value each other. This is exactly what Jesus did. Like Father, like Son.
CTRILEY
says...
5:08pm Thu 3 Nov 11
Nick Scott wrote:According to the Talmud Adam's first wife was called Lilith which according to some accounts was a lesbian.
Indeed, but if God had intended people to be gay he would have given us Adam and Steve.
But was this the intention of God or Adam's performance in bed? Sorry just couldn't resist that one, but the first part is true.
Gnasher1
says...
6:45pm Thu 3 Nov 11
"I agree John, it is more acceptable for a priest to stick his *penis into little boys than it is for two adults to share their lives together in peace and harmony. After all the priest represents the very best of the bible. Suffer the children."
What an imbecile you are!
21jax21
says...
6:57pm Thu 3 Nov 11
Gnasher1 wrote:oh so you like the idea of priests and their pedophilic phalluses,,,figures. i think you should visit the mountain people in west virginia,,, you'd fit right in with that ideal,,,cept with them it's just daddies and grandpas doing it to their girlfolk.
21jax21 says
"I agree John, it is more acceptable for a priest to stick his *penis into little boys than it is for two adults to share their lives together in peace and harmony. After all the priest represents the very best of the bible. Suffer the children."
What an imbecile you are!
CTRILEY
says...
7:05pm Thu 3 Nov 11
Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness"
God is speaking in the pural not the singular. Whilst "let us" as opposed to "you will" shows God is talking to others not as a master ordering servants but as someone talking to others as equals. This means that Genesis itself negates the concept of there being only one God.
Since the male God of the Bible is Yahweh, then who is he talking to? How about Asherah, God's wife which the Isrealites worshipped alongside Yahweh until their time Babylon after which they became a monotheology called Judaism.
But let's not forget Genesis 2:21 in which God removes a rib from Adam. According to the Talmud "rib" is actually "ríb" (pronouced "reeb") meaning half. This means that God took half of man and created woman, reverse this and Adam was orignally both male and female = intersexed (a hermaphrodite). Since God created man in God's own image then God is also intersexed.
CTRILEY
says...
7:20pm Thu 3 Nov 11
CTRILEY
says...
11:11pm Thu 3 Nov 11
But if we are made God’s own image and God has plurality of being then people by the intent of God exist with varying degrees between male and female. Thus people are physically plurality of being then people would exist with varying degrees between male and female, thus people are physically born male, female, intersexed, transgender, transsexual, etc. whilst their sexuality and sexual orientation can be one of heterosexual, gay, bisexual, cross-dresser, etc.
spragger
says...
11:19pm Thu 3 Nov 11
The fact remains there is no concrete evidence of innate homosexuality.
Apart from the usual suspects having a rant . .
spragger
says...
11:19pm Thu 3 Nov 11
The fact remains there is no concrete evidence of innate homosexuality.
Apart from the usual suspects having a rant . .
funksoul201181
says...
11:57pm Thu 3 Nov 11
EliasW
says...
9:47am Fri 4 Nov 11
This whole debate centres around societys view on homosexuals and whether its good or bad, acceptable or unacceptable. To answer this for your self do a Google images search for Gay Pride Marches, San Francisco. Now imagine that's your son, your daughter taking part. Even in the broadminded USA these people are 'not a source of pride'?
EliasW
says...
9:56am Fri 4 Nov 11
stiv
says...
12:54pm Fri 4 Nov 11
Ia2861
says...
2:54pm Fri 4 Nov 11
stiv
says...
6:25pm Fri 4 Nov 11
stiv
says...
6:27pm Fri 4 Nov 11
21jax21
says...
6:34pm Fri 4 Nov 11
Ia2861 wrote:lmao!! omg, people actually still believe this kind of thing??? anyways,,thanks for the afternoon laughs.
Fair enough then homosexuals are not perverts. But on the same basis then neither are paedophiles.
xx
CTRILEY
says...
10:14pm Fri 4 Nov 11
It isn't because there is a vast difference between those who are gay and those who abuse children. But if we take the attitude presented by some then should we find that our child to be gay, then instead of acting like parents and supporting them we should cast them out in the street to be expoilted by drug dealers, murders, rapist and those involved in child prostitution.
If this is what they'll do if their child is gay, imagine what will happen if they discover they don't have blue eyes and blonde hair!
CTRILEY
says...
10:18pm Fri 4 Nov 11
JohnSmith2
says...
10:21pm Fri 4 Nov 11
stiv wrote:which god?
Say what you like, God will forgive you.......... but some maybe more than others!
CTRILEY
says...
10:44pm Fri 4 Nov 11
johnny_p
says...
6:57am Sat 5 Nov 11
I can't believe people are still commenting here!
CTRILEY
says...
8:19am Sat 5 Nov 11
Ia2861 wrote:I was told yesterday that a friend of a friend of my mother has a daughter who is a lesbian. She became so after she was raped by a white hetrosexual man. She recovered pyhsically but she can't bare to be in the same room as a man, so the only contact she can bare is with other woman.
Fair enough then homosexuals are not perverts. But on the same basis then neither are paedophiles.
According to the views of some people on this forum she is worse than the man who raped her.
Tom_K
says...
6:55pm Sun 6 Nov 11
antihypocrisy says...
6:00pm Tue 25 Oct 11