ROY Keane goes head to head with one of his managerial mentors this afternoon, and while the Sunderland boss might be a novice compared with Sir Alex Ferguson, the Irishman admits he already shares the Manchester United manager's ferocious fear of defeat.

Keane enjoyed many of his greatest moments working under Ferguson, with a total of seven Premier League titles, four FA Cups and a Champions League winner's medal cataloguing more than a decade of achievement at Old Trafford.

But just as Ferguson has never lost his burning ambition, despite a multitude of medals, so Keane continues to be driven by an unquenchable desire to succeed.

The former Republic of Ireland international could recall any number of epic victories as his most memorable moments in football.

Instead, he counts this season's Carling Cup defeat to Luton Town and a Scottish FA Cup defeat to Clyde as the games that jump most readily into his head.

Wanting to win is one thing, and Keane's desire to succeed will be at its greatest when United visit the Stadium of Light this afternoon.

"But when it comes to both the Black Cats boss and Ferguson, not wanting to lose appears to be an even more powerful motivational force.

"I always found it easy to move on from success as a player very quickly," said Keane. "But the defeats were always the ones that kept me going.

"You don't look back and think of wins. I read and here about players talking about when they won titles and cups, but I haven't got a clue what year I won anything.

"I haven't got a clue, but I do know when I got relegated. I do know when I lost cup finals. I do know when I lost leagues. I do know when I lost to Clyde in the cup and I do know when I lost to Luton in the League Cup.

"I remember all those things, but I don't remember the good stuff. I suppose you could say that I'm motivated by defeat."

In that case, Keane must be more motivated at the moment than at any other stage in his career.

Stephen Hunt's controversial stoppage-time winner for Reading on Saturday condemned the Black Cats to their sixth straight away defeat.

It dumped the Wearsiders back into the Premier League relegation zone for the third time this season.

Whereas defeat at Manchester United would happen four or five times a year, Sunderland will already have racked up 11 Premier League losses if they succumb to the reigning champions this afternoon.

And while Keane the player would have stewed for days on end if his side were beaten, Keane the manager is even more insufferable if things are not going to plan.

"I think you take defeat 100 times more personally as a manager,"

he said.

"But the hatred of defeat goes right back to when I was a kid.

Even from back then, it's the defeats I remember.

"We (Rockmount, Keane's first club in Ireland) lost a big cup final to Belvedere 3-2, and I remember it as if it was yesterday.

We were 2-0 up and the lad I was marking scored a hat-trick.

"We were only 11 or 12 and the lads I was playing with thought I was miserable. Mind you, they'd probably say the same about me now.

"There's three or four lads I keep in touch with and they'd still say the same. They know me well and they know I don't like losing."

Much of Keanefs intense intolerance of defeat is innate.

However, there are some elements of his character which have undoubtedly been shaped by both Ferguson and Brian Clough, the managerial behemoths who did much to further his career.

Keane spoke to Ferguson repeatedly when he first took over at the Stadium of Light last August.

While the conversations have dried to a trickle now the pair are Premier League rivals, the Irishman often assesses what the Manchester United boss would have done before making a key managerial decision.

His debt to Clough is even greater, and just as the Nottingham Forest manager was famous for trusting his instinct, so Keane has quickly learnt that his first reaction is often the right one.

gI do think about Fergie or Clough and what they would have done,h he admitted.

gYou canft get away from it.

Brian Clough would follow his gut feeling and make a decision to do whatfs best for the team, whatever that might be.

gI look at why I make certain decisions and, 99 times out of 100, itfll be my gut feeling as well.

gOf course you always go back to your own experiences, but you also think about what they might have done.

gSometimes you go the opposite way in the end, but you still think about it. Maybe some of that DNA has passed on.h Michael Chopra is a major doubt for this afternoonfs game after injuring his heel in the latter stages of Saturdayfs 2-1 defeat at Reading.

Keane has also confirmed that neither Kieran Richardson nor Russell Anderson will be considered for Manchester Unitedfs visit, despite returning to light training last week.