McClean poppy snub angers fans (From The Northern Echo)

for some reason McLean seems to have a "self-destruct" button and makes some poor choices. MON needs to remind him of his responsibilities.
Although I do realise there is still a lot of hate for the British Army in the area where he's from and he could have met with problems back home, he should also realise that the poppy is for War dead of every nation and that there were many Irish catholics from both the North and the South who fought and died for Britain during those wars so he could have his freedom of choice he's so badly used today.

jabdc5, the land that's still trying to recover from the last tory government. wrote:
for some reason McLean seems to have a "self-destruct" button and makes some poor choices. MON needs to remind him of his responsibilities.
Although I do realise there is still a lot of hate for the British Army in the area where he's from and he could have met with problems back home, he should also realise that the poppy is for War dead of every nation and that there were many Irish catholics from both the North and the South who fought and died for Britain during those wars so he could have his freedom of choice he's so badly used today.

Why mention Catholics ? Why not Protestants, Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Hindus etc ? Also Mclean is IRISH not British and even you seem bright enough to acknowledge that the British Army is hated in a so called part of their own country. That fact alone, because no other civilised country tends to hate its own army, should be enough for you to realise that McLean is entitled to his views and does not have to recognise or respect rememberance days from a "foreign" army occupying their country, as most Irish people view the six counties

Doon hammer
The rememberence poppy as I'm sure you know, dates back to the first world war. 200,000 Irishmen, both nationalist and unionist fought and 30,000 died side by side. Can you not bring yourself to honour their sacrifice. To use this occasion to make a cheap political point is offensive to their memory. I know it was only in 2006 that the Irish State held an official commemoration for the Irish war dead. They have grown up and moved on. Can you not?

Its his choice and we shouldn't make a fuss about it.Having said that, Maclean seems to me to be a bit of a loose cannon and is not entirely popular even ith Irish supporters.In fact he isn't as good as he thinks he is.Only his enthusiasm made him look good last season and I for one wil be very surprised if he is still in the starting line up come 2013.

He comes from a city where the British army murdered innocent civilians by shooting them in the back in cold blood. Not one of those soldiers has ever been charged. Why the f*** should he wear a symbol associated with that same army? F******morons.

EnlightenedEnglishma
n wrote:
He comes from a city where the British army murdered innocent civilians by shooting them in the back in cold blood. Not one of those soldiers has ever been charged. Why the f*** should he wear a symbol associated with that same army? F******morons.

Well said. The same murderers who gunned down Mairead Farrell, Sean Savage and Daniel McCann in Gibraltar. No doubt Ricardo from Wensleydale will think that is ok, but he should stop looking through rose tinted glasses. The British Government have sent troops to The Falklands, Ireland, Afganistan, Iraq and several other countries trying to defend the undefensible, following the lead from their "allies" across the pond who are just warmongerers. Let every country rule itself, should be the law, but with the English/British you have no chance, just look at the palpitations they are having because Scotland are attempting to break away from the union. If the Scots do, what happens to England then, do the six then become thirty two and one nation again as they should be and the Celtic nations would then pull all the strings. Panic indeed in the corridors of Westminster.

Scotland will reamain in the Union with Ulster!

Maclean is British from londonderry yet favours a foreign land- eire !! Traitor i say!!

doonhamer wrote:

EnlightenedEnglishma n wrote: He comes from a city where the British army murdered innocent civilians by shooting them in the back in cold blood. Not one of those soldiers has ever been charged. Why the f*** should he wear a symbol associated with that same army? F******morons.

Well said. The same murderers who gunned down Mairead Farrell, Sean Savage and Daniel McCann in Gibraltar. No doubt Ricardo from Wensleydale will think that is ok, but he should stop looking through rose tinted glasses. The British Government have sent troops to The Falklands, Ireland, Afganistan, Iraq and several other countries trying to defend the undefensible, following the lead from their "allies" across the pond who are just warmongerers. Let every country rule itself, should be the law, but with the English/British you have no chance, just look at the palpitations they are having because Scotland are attempting to break away from the union. If the Scots do, what happens to England then, do the six then become thirty two and one nation again as they should be and the Celtic nations would then pull all the strings. Panic indeed in the corridors of Westminster.

Were Farrell, Savage and McCann just innocent holidaymakers in Gibraltar then? Perhaps they could have been taken alive, but who cares?
'become thirty two and one nation again' Again? When was that? There has never been a united Ireland under one democratic Irish government.
However, I agree with McClean on this one. His choice and given his upbringing in Republican Derry, it's not difficult to understand his resentment of anything associated with the British Army.

Its LONDONDERRY not Derry. Its in the UK not Ireland and the player is Britsh not Irish whether he likes it or not!

Perhaps those Sunderland fans who are vilifying James McClean might pause in rememberance of the 14 players and spectators who were murdered when the British army opened fire on those attending a football match in Dublin. The aniversary is next Wednesday.

@DaveMurphy, excellent point, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Most of them know sweet FA about events such as the 2 Bloody Sundays, the Ballymurphy massacre, the Pitchfork murders, Pat Finucane, etc. So they are programmed to repeat tabloid cliches and haven't a clue why McClean would correctly refuse to wear a symbol associated, in the context of Ireland, with state sponsored terrorism.

@DaveMurphy. Irrelevant point. Unless we identify the dates of all killings carried out by all military and para-miltary organisations over the last, oh let's see, 300 years, and then pause in rememberance on each anniversary?

I think we'd all be doing nothing except 'pausing'.

I'm not suggesting tit-for-tat killings are okay, but I notice you don't mention the fact that these killings occurred in Dublin in the afternoon of 21 Nov, following the murder in Dublin in the morning of 14 British people, by the IRA. I trust you'll 'pause' for these British victims too?

Thought not.

Frankboy says' you don't mention the fact that these killings occurred in Dublin in the afternoon of 21 Nov, following the murder in Dublin in the morning of 14 British people, by the IRA. He's being a little bit sparing with the truth there! The 14 'people' killed were British intelligence officers who were based in Dublin Castle, then the center for torture of IRA suspects. Indeed 3 suspects were beaten to death in Dublin Castle on that same evening.
The point I wished to make is that those Sunderland supporters who are now vilifying James McClean are probably not aware that in wearing a poppy they are commemorating (among others of course) British soldiers who opened fired on a crowd attending a football match just like they do at the Stadium of Light. The also commemorate(again among others) British soldiers who murdered innocent civilians on the streets of James McClean's home city.
Frankboy is also incorrect in saying that there was never a united Ireland under a democratic government.(earlier post) In 1918 Sinn Fein won a landslide victory in Ireland in the election and in January 1919 established Dail Eireann as the Irish parliament.Those who fought as the IRA in the Irish war of independence did so as a legitimate army.
It is right and proper that those who fought and died in the world wars should be remembered and honored. My own grandfather fought in the British army. But do you honor those brave souls who fought against fascism by the present outburst of 'poppy fascism'? I think not.

So are you saying that the 14 British people murdered in the morning by the IRA was okay, but the shooting of the 14 people in the afternoon was not okay? The two events are clearly linked.

Dave, you're coming at this from an Irish Republican standpoint, which is fair enough, but a couple of things you state are just wrong. People wear the poppy to commemorate those who have given their lives in wars and conflicts over the years. It is not in any way a commemoration of events such as those you are highlighting.

There has never been a 32-county Ireland governed by a democratic Irish government. Never. So you can't go back to what has never been. The 1918 election was part of the UK General Election. Sinn Fein did well in what is now the Republic, but they did not do well in Ulster. So whether legally or morally, there has never been a united Irish vote for a united Ireland.

I'm not a 'poppy fascist' by the way. Although I think it is a mistake to associate it with ALL things British Army, I can see why McClean made his decision, as I said above, and I support his right to choose.

frankyboy wrote:
So are you saying that the 14 British people murdered in the morning by the IRA was okay, but the shooting of the 14 people in the afternoon was not okay? The two events are clearly linked.

Dave, you're coming at this from an Irish Republican standpoint, which is fair enough, but a couple of things you state are just wrong. People wear the poppy to commemorate those who have given their lives in wars and conflicts over the years. It is not in any way a commemoration of events such as those you are highlighting.

There has never been a 32-county Ireland governed by a democratic Irish government. Never. So you can't go back to what has never been. The 1918 election was part of the UK General Election. Sinn Fein did well in what is now the Republic, but they did not do well in Ulster. So whether legally or morally, there has never been a united Irish vote for a united Ireland.

Gentlemen, admire your stance and beliefs, but was it not Lloyd George, who in 1916, after the Easter uprising said, "Home rule for Ireland and we'll wash our hands clean", but the "Home Rule" only applied to 26 counties. Also if you are born in Cork, Dublin, Limerick, Galway, Castleblayney, Coleraine, Athlone or Belfast you are IRISH long before you become British, European or anything else. FACT.

James McClean is entitled not to wear a poopy. That is his own decision to make.
Also MSG, McClean is Irish & not British also, Ulster (correct Irish name Ulaidh) it's self is not totally under UK control only six counties. The other 3 counties, Donegal, Cavan & Monaghan are within the Irish Free State.
My grandfather was a Catholic & he was killed in WW2 in Dunkirk. However, during The Troubles that didn't stop a Protestant mob burning my grandmother's house down.
My late father served in the Royal Navy but, because he was Catholic, he couldn't get a job in Harland & Wolf. I served in the British Army in the past, but still I've had to put up with Irish jibes by annoying little Johnny English types.
I can understand why James McClean doesn't wear a poppy. Just in the same way that although I'm a Catholic & ex British Army, I wouldn't wear an Easter Lilly badge.

Sorry Poppy not poopy...

I'm 77 years old, served 10 years in the Armed Services and have always worn a poppy.........Becaus
e that is MY choice.
I think a lot of people are not giving McClean HIS choice.
For those of you having difficulty understanding what freedom of choice is:
IT IS HAVING THE FREEDOM TO CHOOSE.

doonhamer - I don't agree with Coleraine (particularly) or Belfast. The majority born in Coleraine and half of those born in Belfast are Protestant and the last thing they consider themselves to be is Irish. 'Northern Irish', 'Ulstermen' or 'British', but not Irish. A bit complex is the old Irish situation!
Also, Home Rule applied to only 26 counties because the other 6 wanted none of it, and were prepared to fight against it. I believe the Germans, just before WW1, supplied the UVF with weapons to help them fight against integration. Such irony, the Germans helping a part of Britain to remain a part of Britain, against the will of the British government!

Anyway, if the lad doesn't want to wear a poppy, fair enough.

Duke of Aycliffe, why did you join the British army then??

who gives a t**s about who killed who from both the protestants and ira the main thing is he finds it ok to come to england make a living from the english game and supporters who go to the games and i would say quiet a few sunderland fans are members of the armed services. the lad is a hypocrite and if he feels that bad about i will be glad to walk to sunderland pack his bags and put him on the first flight back to londonderry where he can turn out for derry who i dont think will pay him the wages he is on at sunderland

Frankboy says' doonhamer - I don't agree with Coleraine (particularly) or Belfast. The majority born in Coleraine and half of those born in Belfast are Protestant and the last thing they consider themselves to be is Irish. 'Northern Irish', 'Ulstermen' or 'British', but not Irish. A bit complex is the old Irish situation!
Also, Home Rule applied to only 26 counties because the other 6 wanted none of it, and were prepared to fight against it.'
I must point out that there are 9 counties in Ulster and that there is a NATIONALIST majority in Ulster. The border was drawn around only 6 of them so that there would be a Unionist 'majority'. In fact 43% of the land mass of Ulster is actually in the republic and not Northern Ireland. Of the 6 counties in Northern Ireland at least 2 Fermanagh and Omagh have nationalist majorities.I think Derry also has a nationalist majority. When is a majority not a majority?
It reminds me of the infamous words of Ali G when Sammy Wilson the then Lord Mayor of Belfast upon being asked was he Irish or British proudly replied that he was British. Ali G then asked. 'So iz you on holidaze den?
I must congratulate Frankboy, however, on his efforts to understand the 'Irish situation'

Porca Miseria, I joined because because it's the best trained professional army in the world with good prospects & also freedom to choose.

I don't really see the point in mentioning 9 counties of Ulster, Dave. Ulster as a legal or political seperate entity has not existed for nearly 100 years (and before then it was all part of the UK anyway). As you say, 6 of the counties make up Northern Ireland, and have done since 1921.

There is a nationalist majority in the whole island of Ireland, but that doesn't mean the people of Northern Ireland should be forced to join a State that they do not wish to join. There are more Germans than Belgians, but that doesn't mean Hitler has the right to annex Belgium, even if a minority of Belgians want him to.

There is a legal provision I believe for a unification of Ireland to occur if the majority of people in Northern Ireland vote for it. This may or may not ever happen - we'll see!

I don't think there is any legal provision covering the wearing of a poppy - freedom of choice!

Whetther you like it or not Ulser as we know it is British, Maclean is also British from Londonderry.
Ireland now owes the UK so much money that it will now remain so, as no right minded Irish catholic would want to be re-united with Eire and be burdoned with this massive debt.
God Save the Queen !!