Thousands protest at Forum closure threat (From The Northern Echo)
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Thousands protest at Forum closure threat
9:03am Monday 5th July 2010 in
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- By Jim Entwistle » Reporter (Darlington)
THE founder of a threatened North-East music venue said last night he was “blown away” by the public reaction to the news of its impending closure.
The Forum music centre, in Borough Road, Darlington, is likely to close in September because Darlington Borough Council is unwilling to offer an unsecured £80,000 loan.
The money would enable the not-for-profit centre to access £110,000 through development agency One North East.
But, after the news was made public on Friday, thousands joined online groups and signed petitions in support of the Forum.
Dave Cox, who founded the music centre, said: “It’s absolutely phenomenal. I’m so flattered by the public support.
The depth of feeling is incredible and everyone has expressed it as one voice.”
Ashleigh Trevarrow, founder and chairwoman of the Forum’s successful Newblood events for 14 to 17-yearolds, described the council’s decision as “the worst thing that could possibly happen”.
She added: “Over the past three years, we have had 10,000 young people through the doors. It will affect so many people.”
Miss Trevarrow, 19, a former youth member of parliament for Darlington, said: “The Forum is a starting ground for careers, for friendships, and even for marriages.
Darlington just wouldn’t be the same without it.”
Liberal Democrat councillor Mike Barker said: “On the face of it, the sums required do not seem excessive in view of the return our community receives from it.”
Shaun Campbell, founder of the Arthur Wharton Foundation to promote the memory of the world’s first black professional footballer, who also played for Darlington, said: “I thought this council was forward thinking, but this is such a backward step for social cohesion. It would be a very bad move to let the Forum go under.”
Mr Cox paid tribute to Allison McKay, a fellow board member, who is working to secure the future of the Forum, and to all the staff.
A spokeswoman for the council said the authority had worked closely with Mr Cox and had always provided a high level of support. She said that while it could provide a secured loan, with no risk to the taxpayer, the authority could not justify risking £80,000 on an unsecured loan to make the organisation a community interest company, as is Mr Cox’s wish.
■ See The Northern Echo tomorrow for letters from readers about the closure of The Forum.
Comments(37)
bingbong
says...
10:54am Mon 5 Jul 10
DBC actually HAVE offered to loan the money, but only on a secured basis, which Mr Cox doesn't want to do. So it seems if the Forum does close it's down to the refusal of Mr Cox to allow the loan to be secured on his house rather than DBC refusing to loan the money in the first place. But of course it's always easy to point the finger of blame at the Public Sector.
I would say to Mr Cox, if this is such a great venture and so important to the town, put your money where your mouth is and take the secured loan from the Council instead of trying to turn this round and make if look like DBC aren't willing to lend the money.
robsonj
says...
1:44pm Mon 5 Jul 10
This all comes down to the fact he isnt willing to risk his own finances and sees it more like the public should rest their money in exchange for (public investment)...And theres the fact he has been trying to pass on the business to other organisations for years.....
Totally agree with the comment above. This isnt DBCs doing - Its Mr Cox and the fact he doesnt have faith in his own business.
robsonj
says...
1:44pm Mon 5 Jul 10
This all comes down to the fact he isnt willing to risk his own finances and sees it more like the public should rest their money in exchange for (public investment)...And theres the fact he has been trying to pass on the business to other organisations for years.....
Totally agree with the comment above. This isnt DBCs doing - Its Mr Cox and the fact he doesnt have faith in his own business.
Bambooflyrod
says...
2:51pm Mon 5 Jul 10
Firstly, Eurojag is NOT a Jaguar 'dealership'. Try using Google to check your facts. It is Jaguar spares business. Secondly, so what? What on earth has this got to do with the closure of the Forum?
Dave Cox has put a serious amount of his own money into the Forum from the outset. It is a non-profit organisation. Surely this must speak volumes for his integrity and honesty which you seem so keen to question.
Homshaw
says...
3:14pm Mon 5 Jul 10
Musicvoice
says...
3:21pm Mon 5 Jul 10
The Echo remains silent on this point.
Is it actually a payment to refund one person's original commercial investment in The Forum as a private and very much for profit business interest?
Do the townsfolk in their thousands really want to donate to a personal repayment plan?
New Blood is a separate organisation to The Forum and is a charity which can access a wide variety of funding.
New Blood is not in any danger of disappearing overnight. Nor is the Borough Road building, which the council owns. The kids will still have a venue, folks.
PATCHES53
says...
3:38pm Mon 5 Jul 10
This is a successful venue that helps many young people in their careers & their social lives.
Many people - both young & old - use the Forum as a social as well as live music venue.
I have been to numerous wedding receptions, wedding anniversaries & birthday parties at the Forum.
My own daughter had her 18th birthday celebratiion there with a live band who came all the way from Newcastle to play for her. The event was attended by ±200 people.
People travel from miles around to see local, regional, national & international musicians & performers.
The only other venues with this reputation & standing in the music world are places like Middlesbrough, Stockton, York, Hasrtlepool & Newcastle.
The Forum brings to Darlington money from far & wide which has to be a good thing.
To not support Mr Cox and the staff of The Forum and the young people of Darlington is very shortsighted and would be a disgrace and a let down for those "decent" young people of this town.
I ask the council "to think again".
loopeyloo75
says...
3:39pm Mon 5 Jul 10
Bambooflyrod
says...
5:27pm Mon 5 Jul 10
scuzz
says...
6:03pm Mon 5 Jul 10
Gramps427 has what i think to be the answer, if we can save the Football club (which is about as far from Non Profit as you can get) then why not something which will actually help this town? Id hate to see the Forum in DBC control anyway, they couldnt run a P*** up in a brewery.
This is not about Dave Cox, this is about all those Darlingtonians who love and use the Forum. Dave's done his bit by setting it up, if Joseph Pease were here he'd be putting up the cash to save it.
Lost_Souls
says...
6:18pm Mon 5 Jul 10
Lets be fair-minded about this. The Forum is a private business in the ownership of Mr. Cox. Mr. Cox chooses to run the business as a not-for-profit organisation, and very laudable that is. As far as I'm aware from what I have read though, DBC approved a 'secured loan' of £80k to Mr. Cox in November 2009 to ensure the continued existance of The Forum. Mr. Cox wishes to pass the ownership of The Forum to a CIC, and therefore is no longer willing to stand as guarantor for a 'secured loan', and is now asking for an 'unsecured loan'.
The question then becomes should DBC therefore risk taxpayers money by providing loans to private businesses on an unsecured basis? I think the answer is obvious...
I know people will say this is a 'special' or 'unique' case, and I do appreciate the sentiment and passion behind such views, however in the cold light of day DBC cannot be seen to play at being a bank to private businesses in the town. Has Mr. Cox approached banks in the town for his £80k loan? Would they be prepared to offer the money to him on an unsecured basis? I'm guessing not...
What is the £80k actually for anyway? There are too many unanswered questions, however I know that it would be reckless for DBC to set a precedent of loaning money to private businesses on an unsecured basis.
The Forum is not the only live music venue in the town, despite what the Northern Echo claimed on Saturday - in the last year Inside Out has seen Ash, Maximo Park, The Bluetones and Pete Doherty all play there, as well as many tribute acts.
I wish the campaigners well in their efforts to keep The Forum open - any fund-raising activities, or attempts to access alternative forms of funding, will have my support, however lets remember that DBC has a responsibility to 100,000 residents, not just the 754 people that have signed the petition.
robsonj
says...
8:01pm Mon 5 Jul 10
The facts are:
The guy has equity but wont use it.This will make any investor question his faith... Duncan Bannatyne used his homes as security. look where he is now?
Some people are missing the point that this money is "supposedly guarenteed to come back".
This is called a bridging loan - if he can prove it to the bank that this money is g`teed then a whole bunch of them would be waiting to loan him the money.
Somethings amiss here... If you work in a bank then you see it all the time, people who are quite willing to risk other peoples money. This is why the country has been in recession, too many people like this.
The forum also has a bar... Why hasnt it made a profit? Take a percentage of bands profits.. Come on, add a commercial edge to the business and you would make that £80,000 before september!
4000 visitiors a month, charge them £10 each....or entry fees.
Why not, if its such a financial hardship, give it up to a businessman who can turn it around.
Or... someone needs to just do the simple thing and extend their mortgage on their own house...Why wont this happen? Because It is easy to make the public think you care. Why close the Forum down when effectively you can blame the council for doing so!
Bambooflyrod
says...
8:32pm Mon 5 Jul 10
I think 'Young Blood' is for 14-17 yr olds. ( I stand to be corrected on this) Get a grip man. this about 'COMMUNITY, NOT PROFIT,' and even if a profit were made, so what? That's business. It generally gets ploughed back in.
The Forum is about youth and opportunity. Expectation, development and achievement. Oh, and don't forget the enjoyment factor as well.
'The guy has investment but won't use it.'(unquote).......
Hell.... where on earth do you think this initial concept and investment for Forum came from? It was not a DBC initiative, it was straight from Dave Cox.
I remember being shown around the 'shell of the Forum' long before it opened and I can assure you the cash came from DC's pocket. I speak on a very authoritive note here as my late father was the caretaker of said 'music centre' and I know, having grown up in the old house on the corner of Borough Road and Brunswick Street, what a bloody state it was in.
Ps. Where does the logic of a Jaguar spares business opposed to a Jaguar Dealership make it more profitable?
Musicvoice
says...
8:52pm Mon 5 Jul 10
It appears the 80k offered to the Forum in 2009 (and quite possibly the 110K match-funding this would release to the CIC from One North East is probably, to coin a phrase, being for the benefit of Mr Cox.
The Borough Road Music Centre will probably be recycled/given to the awfully well-funded youth music organisations such as Darlington Youth Music/New Blood. The facility as a venue and rehearsal resource will not be lost. It is council property!
'Save The Forum' is being presented otherwise, as if the original commercial investor gets his money back, the Forum can be saved, and DBC are wrongly portyrayed as the villain.
DBC has indeed papered the Forum with preferential financial support over the years. The Forum has however remained a private business throughout. Not for profit is ain't, not making a profit is just unfortunate.
The whole campaign is about giving one business owner his money back.
robsonj
says...
9:24pm Mon 5 Jul 10
The spares business would have a larger customer base as they would see parts for an existing Jag customer base, a dealership is selling from the word go and doesnt have an established customer line plus the end product is more expensive -less units sold.
Dont get me wrong, i know the idea of this whole thing is a community peice but, if you have any doubt whatsoever, why not join companies house and check out Eurojags accounts (which are 100% legally available and readable). Rest assured that they arent short of a bob or two.
On the first article i commented that Mr Cox has been trying to let this business go for over 3 years now.
He has pursued funding for the place since day 1, quite rightly so but the fact this place holds concerts and has a bar - they are two perfect ways to turn a profit.
Non-profit organisations plough or retain the money in the business and true some businesses also retain or reinvest the money. Non profit doesnt mean that he doesnt make a profit, simply its kept in the business. Surely hes made something out of all this? Or is the Jag parts business keeping him ticking over?
It seems to me that the council is taking the rap for this for no reason whatsoever. If Mr Cox had been to Barclays, and they had turned him down, would they be in this article? When you bought a house, did you not have a deposit?
I keep repeating myself now and youve missed this point.. If this money is G`teed to be refunded then any bank would lend him that money... They wont, because its not.
I dont wish the forum to close, just think that this is an excuse to get rid of the business that David Cox himself has said "is wearing him out" and "im trying to get someone to take it off my hands".
Lets hope he gets his wish.
robsonj
says...
9:25pm Mon 5 Jul 10
The spares business would have a larger customer base as they would see parts for an existing Jag customer base, a dealership is selling from the word go and doesnt have an established customer line plus the end product is more expensive -less units sold.
Dont get me wrong, i know the idea of this whole thing is a community peice but, if you have any doubt whatsoever, why not join companies house and check out Eurojags accounts (which are 100% legally available and readable). Rest assured that they arent short of a bob or two.
On the first article i commented that Mr Cox has been trying to let this business go for over 3 years now.
He has pursued funding for the place since day 1, quite rightly so but the fact this place holds concerts and has a bar - they are two perfect ways to turn a profit.
Non-profit organisations plough or retain the money in the business and true some businesses also retain or reinvest the money. Non profit doesnt mean that he doesnt make a profit, simply its kept in the business. Surely hes made something out of all this? Or is the Jag parts business keeping him ticking over?
It seems to me that the council is taking the rap for this for no reason whatsoever. If Mr Cox had been to Barclays, and they had turned him down, would they be in this article? When you bought a house, did you not have a deposit?
I keep repeating myself now and youve missed this point.. If this money is G`teed to be refunded then any bank would lend him that money... They wont, because its not.
I dont wish the forum to close, just think that this is an excuse to get rid of the business that David Cox himself has said "is wearing him out" and "im trying to get someone to take it off my hands".
Lets hope he gets his wish.
philtwist2003
says...
11:54pm Mon 5 Jul 10
Lost_Souls
says...
6:42am Tue 6 Jul 10
I come back to my original point that The Forum is still a private business, as are venues such as Inside Out or Seen. If these were struggling, would these venues also be eligible for an 'unsecured loan' from DBC? Please do not suggest that these are merely night clubs. Primarily they are, however, as previously mentioned, Inside Out have hosted many bands over the last year, and will be participating in 'Darlington's First Music Festival', according to the Northern Echo very recently. Inside Out also works in partnership to provide comedy nights via the 'Hilarity Bites' brand, booking established acts and showcasing emerging talent.
According to their website, on a Friday night 'the back room at Seen opens up to Darlington’s number one alternative night the Voodoo Rock Night. Great bands play regularly and the music caters for all tastes in Rock, Goth, Metal, Punk, SKA and more.'
Do bands still play and rehearse upstairs in the Tap and Spile?
The Arts Centre and Civic Theatre also demonstrate a varied programme of entertainment - perhaps not to the taste of everyone that attends at The Forum, however surely everyone's tastes in Darlington should be catered for?
The arts and culture are thriving in Darlington, which is something we should be proud of. If The Forum does close, could Inside Out not be approached to run the Newblood nights from 7pm-10pm one Thursday a month?
The Forum does have a role to play however, like other commercial venues in the town, it should be run on that basis and not be eligible for 'unsecured' handouts. DBC seem to have been very reasonable in offering a 'secured loan' in this instance, and if Mr. Cox does not want to accept that offer then that is surely his choice.
Musicvoice
says...
9:53am Tue 6 Jul 10
If the controversial £80K loan was indeed paid out by DBC over a year ago, they clearly have not refused to pay it, and it's the transfer of the loan to the CIC which is the problem.
DBC are now duty bound to get their (our) money back, which it seems they have generously loaned to a private business owner, without ever notifying Darlington's residents.
Such a cozy deal, now turning bad for all concerned, would indeed not have been available to any other bar, venue, rehearsal or music recording business in Darlington.
These businesses actually do exist, but may not for much longer if the even cozier deal which is the already formed supersized CIC version of The Forum were to open for business.
Sadly, this is all about local politics and wheels within wheels, but of course, the kids and their mums and dads don't care about that.
They just want to rock.
philtwist2003
says...
10:14am Tue 6 Jul 10
David Cox's wife has never been a Director of Eurojag. David was a Director and his wife was company secretary up until 2008 when he sold all of his interest in this company. Companies House will confirm this if you were to check. In fact David used his profits from this company and the return from the sale to subsidise the forum. He has himself made an unsecured loan of £60,000 to the CIC Humantics which he will lose along with his house if the company goes down due to the reluctance on the part of the Council. There is no truth in your comment about David trying to pass the business on to others for years. He has run the forum philanthropically for six years with discount rehearsal and recording charges. That is why there has been such a public outcry. Anyone in the music business knows how it is impossible to make this sort of cultural activity pay for itself. His intention has been to convert the business to a CIC for a long time now and it is a travesty that at the very point that this was to happen the Council have bottled out on what I see as a very small investment for a well loved community facility.
@Lostsouls
Inside Out does put on bands but it is primarily a night club and this is how it makes its money. It might be possible to transfer Newblood to Inside Out. They did try to run a similar event a couple of years ago which fizzled out after I think two nights - because these nights do need subsidy to work. I wasn't aware that the Tap had been used for rehearsals - I'm sure it isn't now - and there is no other publically accessible rehearsal space.
Gigs at the other venues are normally 18+ with occasional 16+ provision and licensing concerns invariably mean that young bands and artists are precluded.
The Forum currently complements the arts service provision in the town at no cost to the Council Tax payer. The intention is to make it a not-for-profit social enterprise working in partnership with the Council so that it can continue to do this. I personally think the Council should make a grant of £80,000 rather than a loan. The Arts Centre and Theatre must cost the Council millions. Why shouldn't some of this money be targeted at the Forum?
Spode
says...
10:20am Tue 6 Jul 10
Personally I’m fairly conflicted on the issue of DBC refusing the unsecured loan, especially after reading Philtwist2003’s excellent post. On the one hand they are acting responsibly with public money, but on the other they have indeed profited by the investments made by Mr Cox to improve the building.
The Forum is very much worth saving, and people comparing it to Inside Out seem to be forgetting about a major part of what The Forum is used for; superb practice rooms and recording facilities.
What I’d like to know is why the Forum isn’t making money, anywhere with a customer base as loyal as the Forum’s seems to be should be able to make a profit.
In my opinion they shot themselves in the foot when they opened by making it members only, a reputation that took them a very long time to shake, and one which isn’t helped by that irritating buzzer entry system. I understand the need for it, with the entrance leading straight to the practice rooms which house expensive equipment, but that is the fault of the layout of the Forum, which was decided upon at a time when they had decided it would be members only.
philtwist2003
says...
10:31am Tue 6 Jul 10
Fair point about the membership and buzzer..
Main reason for the loses is the need to absorb the set-up costs. Plus it is really hard to make live music pay. Sadly the most profitable events have been tribute acts and cover bands!
spber15
says...
10:57am Tue 6 Jul 10
Firstly I'd like to say, Eurojag is a company which was set up around 20 years ago, and does not "sell cars for 80k", but is merely a Jaguar Specialist selling parts for Jaguar cars. Valerie - Mr Cox's wife - has nothing to do with Eurojag. Philtwist2003 has hit the nail on the head really.
I was fortunate to see the amount of work that was - and still is - being put into The Forum by David Cox, his family and friends. The Forum was set up by himself on his own funds and over the 6 years has began to break even. DBC are more content with putting money into water features and pedestrian circles then funding a place which the community feels like it owns.
philtwist2003
says...
12:52pm Tue 6 Jul 10
Have just heard that the youth service would not be able to support Newblood if it moved to a night club setting as this would apparently "send out all the wrong signals".. I guess I see their point!
Trippynet
says...
1:14pm Tue 6 Jul 10
The problem is that The Forum is no ordinary business. It is a vital community asset. It provides affordable entertainment and facilities for people of all ages, it helps keep kids off the street by offering practice facilities and Newblood evenings, it caters for everyone. As a result, I feel that losing The Forum would be a huge blow to Darlington. It would negatively affect thousands of citizens of this town both directly and indirectly.
As a result of this and as a council tax payer myself, I want to persuade the council that it is worthwhile to spend £80k on keeping The Forum running - money which is stands a very good chance of getting back as well. I DO want my council tax money to be spent in this way as I genuinely feel that it will benefit Darlington. So. No blame or anything like that, I just feel that The Forum is worth saving - regardless of the fact that it is technically a private business.
suesplash75
says...
4:18pm Tue 6 Jul 10
Darlington Civic Theatre and Darlington Arts Centre do not cater in any way for the target audience of The Forum and neither offers anything in the way of recording facilities or rehearsal space at an affordable price. This combined with the absence of music and performing arts at Darlington college (formerly Darlington College of Technology), which was once an important provider of arts education, demonstrates a neglectful attitude towards nurturing new and existing talent. Condemning The Forum for financial reasons, when it is clearly a well supported venture, is exceptionally ignorant and short sighted. It also ignores the fact that the arts as a whole hardly ever make profit and need constant subsidy to keep them going. For a town that is keen to parade its connection and ‘dedication’ to the arts it seems somewhat hypocritical that this venture is not supported. I agree with philtwist2003 – the council should make a grant to The Forum not a loan.
Lost_Souls
says...
7:49pm Tue 6 Jul 10
I do appreciate everything you have said in relation to The Forum, and agree with the sentiment behind much of it, however I still find it hard to advocate risking taxpayers money on an 'unsecured loan' to a private venture, no matter how well-intentioned that venture may be. It would set a precedent for every private, independent business in the town - DBC cannot favour one private business over another, so once they've paid out to one, they would have to offer the same arrangement to all, and for that reason I can understand why they want to protect their interests. Why can't Mr. Cox take out a 'secured loan' if he is so confident of having the money refunded? That would solved all the problems...
I must admit to a certain degree I feel that having a youth event in a nightclub WOULD 'send out the wrong signals', however let us not forget that The Forum is a licensed venue as well. I do not believe any youth events should take place in licensed venues, however what's good for the goose is good for the gander! Is the bar closed at The Forum during Newblood events? If so, could this not also be a stipulation of any agreement with any other venue?
In terms of your information from the Youth Service, it is excellent that they now take this view, however it seems to have shifted somewhat from last year when the Youth Service were arranging Rave Nights for Under-18's at Escapades on Gladstone Street. I also recall the Youth Service arranging buses so that young people in Darlington could attend Under-18 nights at Tall Trees nightclub in Yarm. From my perspective, it has to be one or the other. All youth events, such as Newblood should take place at unlicensed premises (and why not, 14-17 year olds shouldn't be drinking), or if these events can take place at licensed premises then all such venues should be explored for their potential (with bars being closed of course!).
philtwist2003
says...
12:26am Wed 7 Jul 10
The whole point is that David Cox is trying to convert the business away from a private venture, as you put it, to a social enterprise. Please google this and see what this means.
Yes - stangely I was aware of the escapades escapade and wondered how that could be reconciled with my earlier post! Newblood is a dry night - they close the bar - so you have a valid argument!
The solution, however, may be for the loan to be secured in another way.. Hope you can join us on the demo.. next week Tuesday 13 July 4:30 outside the town hall.
Lost_Souls
says...
6:00am Wed 7 Jul 10
Whilst I am very grateful for your assistance in directing me as to the definition of a 'social enterprise', I am familiar with the concept, and I am aware that this is what Mr. Cox is wanting to do.
If the loan could be secured in another way that would be great - the ideal solution in my view is that The Forum finds a way to stay open (I will remind you that on my initial comment I did say that this is a great venue). My only concern has been that those campaigning seem to have cast DBC as the villain of the piece, when really all they seem to have done is sought to protect taxpayers money by taking the stance that any loan must be 'secured'. I think that, legally, this is a perfectly understandable position for them to take, and perhaps should not necessarily be criticised for it. As mentioned earlier, they have a responsibility to all residents in safeguarding taxpayers money, not just the patrons of The Forum. Many residents may feel that investment / assistance is equally valid in other areas (sporting / health projects for children and young people, environmental groups, etc.) and this is why I understand that DBC cannot be seen to be favouring one venture over any other in terms of an 'unsecured' loan. I just feel that there is a lack of understanding as to the mechanics of these things by many who are, passionately, trying to advance The Forum's cause.
In closing, I hope The Forum survives and finds a way to either generate the required funds, or 'secure' the loan from DBC - that would be the ideal scenario, and one that I hope can be achieved. I have posed a number of other possible solutions in my comments should the worst come to the worst - I'm no expert though, so there may be valid arguments as to why other venues can't be used, however isn't it worthwhile to thrash around other ideas, just in case? One other venue that comes to mind is the Garden Bar at the Arts Centre - I've seen bands there many years ago too, but again I'm not aware of the current situation there either. Or alternatively could school's music department facilities not be more readily available after school hours for those that want to use them at a reduced cost? (I know some schools have great studios now!). I know that many young people don't want to stay back in the school environment, however surely if they were passionate about music it is an option for them. As I say, I'm not an expert, however I am a pragmatist, and feel that it is only sensible to look at all options should the worst case scenario occur.
Hopefully there will be a resolution prior to any demonstration next Tuesday.
philtwist2003
says...
9:21am Wed 7 Jul 10
I might add that it is very common for local government to support social enterprises in many ways if they believe that they are delivering the kind of service provisiion that is needed. I do not deny that there are other services that need to be maintained in a difficult climate but believe that the support that has been requested is wholely reasonable and would deliver good value for money. Of course the campaigners are looking at other options including establishing a friends of the forum to raise donations from supporters and co-ordinate other fund raising activities. We are also looking at attracting funds from elsewhere. Sadly, it is also the case that we are exploring the potential for delivering some of the provision elsewhere in case our efforts to save the forum fail. But at the moment we want to keep up the pressure on the council as part of our campaign. I hope you can join us at the demo before the next cabinet meeting at 4.30pm on Tuesday 13 July.
Izitme?
says...
2:45pm Wed 7 Jul 10
suesplash75 wrote:When my sons were younger when the Forum opened, I was happy for them to be members and use the rehearsal facilities for young musicians, feeling that they were in a safe environment.I Agree with Suesplash...the Forum has always been unique and provided a space neither nightclub, pub(as Tap and Spile ) or school environment...none of which have the right "vibe" or facilities.Also there is government restrictions/licensi
Inside out and Scene are completely inappropriate alternatives to the Forum. Firstly because of age limitations and secondly because they do not function as recording or rehearsal venues, they are night clubs pure and simple. In addition one of the reasons for the success of The Forum is that it is not a night club and provides excellent entertainment without the negative atmosphere a town centre club unfortunately attracts. Darlington Civic Theatre and Darlington Arts Centre do not cater in any way for the target audience of The Forum and neither offers anything in the way of recording facilities or rehearsal space at an affordable price. This combined with the absence of music and performing arts at Darlington college (formerly Darlington College of Technology), which was once an important provider of arts education, demonstrates a neglectful attitude towards nurturing new and existing talent. Condemning The Forum for financial reasons, when it is clearly a well supported venture, is exceptionally ignorant and short sighted. It also ignores the fact that the arts as a whole hardly ever make profit and need constant subsidy to keep them going. For a town that is keen to parade its connection and ‘dedication’ to the arts it seems somewhat hypocritical that this venture is not supported. I agree with philtwist2003 – the council should make a grant to The Forum not a loan.
ng for live music in public venues now. Support from Forum led to my kids finding College places (in other towns of course) and music-related paid work .DBC seem to support sports activities which is right they should; but the Arts are equally important . Not all young people want to be footballers etc.What quality of music provision exists in Darlington schools these days anyway ? This issue should be more important than petty local politics. Council should be glad that the Forum makes provision that the Arts Centre etc. does not and they should give them a grant for that reason alone.Hypocrites , too right !
Lost_Souls
says...
6:23pm Wed 7 Jul 10
It is heartening to hear that other local authorities support social enterprises, and I think it would only be fair to acknowledge that over the last few years DBC has worked extremely closely with The Forum. It might be worthwhile highlighting examples of the assistance provided by other local authorities to such enterprises. For instance, are there any other cases, in the last six months or so, whereby a local authority has provided an unsecured loan for such a venture? If so, then there is surely a precedent there which can be demonstrated to DBC, in the hope that they might change their mind. Just a thought...
In some ways, I agree that a grant would be wonderful (I would perhaps like to see criteria drawn up so that it wasn't solely about The Forum though, and that other enterprises could possibly apply for such a grant in the future), however in the current economic situation I fear that would be nigh on impossible. DBC will point to the fact that they provide the Arts Centre, and while some can moan about it as much as they want, it does provide a number of different activities and programmes - many not necessasrily to my taste either, however I do enjoy some of the shows and films they put on. If DBC won't provide an unsecured loan in terms of The Forum, perhaps pressure could be brought to bear to increase the investment and vary the activities available at the Arts Centre?
I still think the best option is finding some way to provide security for the loan though, or encouraging an investor (Duncan B?) to loan the monies in the short term - this would achieve the goals of all parties concerned, and ensure the future of The Forum.
I do appreciate the passion of your contributions, philtwist2003, however I am merely trying to portray an objective view (playing devil's advocate some of the time too ;-) ).
philtwist2003
says...
6:38pm Wed 7 Jul 10
scuzz
says...
6:50pm Wed 7 Jul 10
Lost_Souls
says...
11:17pm Wed 7 Jul 10
I do like the idea of the Community Asset Transfer programme. I'm very much in favour of utilising and renovating disused buildings for the benefit of the community, if they have no other potential use. Why have a useful asset stood empty! If local authorities were not completely happy in transferring the ownership of the building to a community-based organisation, surely an extended lease is something that could be explored. I'm guessing this is the kind of arrangement The Forum presently has with DBC? Still not sure that there will be many precedents in terms of local authorities specifically offering unsecured financial loans though, however I would be very happy to be corrected. I fear that both parties (Mr. Cox and DBC) have offered as much as they are comfortable with, hence the impasse, and I do see the only option for resolution being the 'secured loan', but again I'm happy to be proven wrong if something happens to resolve the situation in another manner.
I'm just an interested resident moved to enter into this forum (if you pardon the pun!) for the first time. I have no immediate or first-hand knowledge of the situation, however have taken the time to read what is available on the Facebook Campaign webpages, the Northern Echo website, and the DBC website, amongst others, and drawn a view from the information readily available. I've been to The Forum on several occasions and thoroughly enjoyed it, however I enjoy seeing live music and shows at other town venues, including Inside Out, the Arts Centre, etc. My primary interest is one of 'fairness', not just to The Forum, but also to DBC, and other live music venues in the town.
@Scuzz
Apologies if it seemed as though I was playing 'devil's advocate just to wind people up' - it certainly was not my intention. If you look back over my posts I'm sure you'll see I was very specifically engaging in a discussion with philtwist2003, and the purpose of that discussion was to flesh out and develop thoughts around the positions of those involved. Admittedly, I threw in some practical examples of where things might develop if The Forum were to close, however I believe in developing practical solutions - I make no apologies for that. I believe by playing at being devil's advocate in a constructive manner (which I hope I was - perhaps philtwist2003 may have a view here) it can enable even the most passionate observer to see both sides of an argument, which is fundemental in getting towards any form of resolution. Apologies again if it didn't come across like that, however I am very much in favour of civilised, constructive, open debate.
Jolly Roger
says...
10:45pm Thu 8 Jul 10
es he might have started it - but he hs proved it can be success, so come on DBC help the youngsters of the town by keeping them off the streets.
It seems many of the tax payers of the town want you to do just that.
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gramps427 says...
10:36am Mon 5 Jul 10