Karl McCracken to speak at Darlington Cycling Campaign

A LEADING cycling campaigner will be the guest speaker at town group's second open lecture event of the season.

Karl McCracken will give an illustrated talk about raising the profile of cycling at a Darlington Cycling Campaign event on Friday, March 19.

His talk will be entitled "What's needed to make riding a part of the transport rather than the sports and leisure agenda".

It will also include an open forum with people encouraged to ask questions and give their own opinions.

Mr McCracken has recently warned cyclists about the dangers of pinch points on roads and the hazards they pose to their cyclists.

As a result campaign member Mike McTimoney has blogged on the campaign's blog site about similar problems in Darlington.

Using Google maps and new Street View service, he has highlighted just three problems caused with pedestrian refuges in Haughton Road, Darlington.

Mr McCraken's talk is being held at Darlington Arts Centre's media workshop on Friday, at 7.30pm. Entry is free and open to all.

Comments (48)

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9:42pm Wed 17 Mar 10

Laird says...

Having read Mikes blogspot on the pinch points in Haughton Road, I too will now be following in his footsteps by taking the aggressive cycling approach when riding my bike too - hope I don't get run over....
Having read Mikes blogspot on the pinch points in Haughton Road, I too will now be following in his footsteps by taking the aggressive cycling approach when riding my bike too - hope I don't get run over.... Laird
  • Score: 0

9:24am Thu 18 Mar 10

miketually says...

I prefer the term assertive to aggressive :)
I prefer the term assertive to aggressive :) miketually
  • Score: 0

11:56pm Fri 19 Mar 10

grandmab says...

At least it sounds like the above posters are riding on the road, unlike most cyclists I encounter.
At least it sounds like the above posters are riding on the road, unlike most cyclists I encounter. grandmab
  • Score: 0

8:03am Sat 20 Mar 10

BMD says...

Reported on the BBC
A 27-year-old cyclist has been arrested after the death of a tourist who was knocked down by a pedal bike in London.

Scotland Yard said the man was arrested on suspicion of involuntary manslaughter and bailed.

Marian Anderson, 56, from Denmark, was hit while crossing a road in Camden on 21 February. She died in hospital from head injuries on 1 March.

Police said she was with her daughter, who is in her mid-20s, at the time. The cyclist involved stopped at the scene.

The incident happened in Lidlington Place, at the junction with Eversholt Street.
Cyclist arrest after Camden tourist death.
Ms Anderson was taken by ambulance to University College Hospital before being moved to the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery in London, where she later died.

The man was arrested on Friday after attending a police station in central London, Metropolitan Police officers said.

The arrest was on suspicion of involuntary manslaughter by recklessness and negligence.

He was bailed until a date in May pending further inquiries.

I think raising the profile of cycling accidents in the town centre should be a priority
Reported on the BBC A 27-year-old cyclist has been arrested after the death of a tourist who was knocked down by a pedal bike in London. Scotland Yard said the man was arrested on suspicion of involuntary manslaughter and bailed. Marian Anderson, 56, from Denmark, was hit while crossing a road in Camden on 21 February. She died in hospital from head injuries on 1 March. Police said she was with her daughter, who is in her mid-20s, at the time. The cyclist involved stopped at the scene. The incident happened in Lidlington Place, at the junction with Eversholt Street. Cyclist arrest after Camden tourist death. Ms Anderson was taken by ambulance to University College Hospital before being moved to the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery in London, where she later died. The man was arrested on Friday after attending a police station in central London, Metropolitan Police officers said. The arrest was on suspicion of involuntary manslaughter by recklessness and negligence. He was bailed until a date in May pending further inquiries. I think raising the profile of cycling accidents in the town centre should be a priority BMD
  • Score: 0

8:17am Sat 20 Mar 10

miketually says...

By posting that in full, and by not attributing the source, you're breaking the law, by the way. (http://news.bbc.co.
uk/1/hi/england/lond
on/8577612.stm)
.
I'm not sure what your point is though? From the article, it sounds like the incident happened on a road. We'll have to wait until the legal process is complete before we know what actually happened.
.
Shall I copy and paste all the news articles about people being killed by cars, buses, trucks and pedestrians?
.
I would welcome all accidents in the town centre having their profile raised, because I know how many there have been and their cause. What that has to do with poor road design, which is what the article mentions, I don't know.
By posting that in full, and by not attributing the source, you're breaking the law, by the way. (http://news.bbc.co. uk/1/hi/england/lond on/8577612.stm) . I'm not sure what your point is though? From the article, it sounds like the incident happened on a road. We'll have to wait until the legal process is complete before we know what actually happened. . Shall I copy and paste all the news articles about people being killed by cars, buses, trucks and pedestrians? . I would welcome all accidents in the town centre having their profile raised, because I know how many there have been and their cause. What that has to do with poor road design, which is what the article mentions, I don't know. miketually
  • Score: 0

1:47pm Sat 20 Mar 10

BMD says...

The arrest was on suspicion of involuntary manslaughter by recklessness and negligence.

Road design is not mentioned in the article.

But surely if this can happen on the roads, you can’t expect it to be safe for cyclists to be riding on the pavement.
The arrest was on suspicion of involuntary manslaughter by recklessness and negligence. Road design is not mentioned in the article. But surely if this can happen on the roads, you can’t expect it to be safe for cyclists to be riding on the pavement. BMD
  • Score: 0

3:50pm Sat 20 Mar 10

miketually says...

Seems like very strange logic to me.
.
Because a pedestrian was killed by a cyclist on the road, you think we should look at accidents involving bikes in the town centre? (They are already being looked at, by the way, and have been for the last couple of years.)
.
By the same logic, should we ban cars from urban roads if there's one death on a motorway?
.
Do you know what the best way of getting bikes off pavements would be? To build some proper infrastructure for bikes, by taking space away from cars.
Seems like very strange logic to me. . Because a pedestrian was killed by a cyclist on the road, you think we should look at accidents involving bikes in the town centre? (They are already being looked at, by the way, and have been for the last couple of years.) . By the same logic, should we ban cars from urban roads if there's one death on a motorway? . Do you know what the best way of getting bikes off pavements would be? To build some proper infrastructure for bikes, by taking space away from cars. miketually
  • Score: 0

4:29pm Sat 20 Mar 10

Laird says...

Mike,
Are the 80 bikes which the council have bought going to be hired out to both male and female residents?
Is there a website on this subject anywhere?
Mike, Are the 80 bikes which the council have bought going to be hired out to both male and female residents? Is there a website on this subject anywhere? Laird
  • Score: 0

6:33pm Sat 20 Mar 10

BMD says...

Mike,
Let’s get into the 21st century; cycling is now considered a leisure activity, that’s why there is NO tax to be paid on its use.
.
Motor vehicles are a necessity for people’s hectic life-styles, Road tax is collected from each motor vehicle and this tax is distributed to the NHS, road maintenance and even cycle path construction.
.
Hopefully now you may well see the benefit of motorized transportation.
.
The point of view I am trying to discuss is cycling is not permitted on the pavements when entering Darlington town centre, but upon arrival in the pedestrian heart project this rule is changed. Therefore would it not be advisable to erect warning signs to the pedestrians to the cycling hazard.
Mike, Let’s get into the 21st century; cycling is now considered a leisure activity, that’s why there is NO tax to be paid on its use. . Motor vehicles are a necessity for people’s hectic life-styles, Road tax is collected from each motor vehicle and this tax is distributed to the NHS, road maintenance and even cycle path construction. . Hopefully now you may well see the benefit of motorized transportation. . The point of view I am trying to discuss is cycling is not permitted on the pavements when entering Darlington town centre, but upon arrival in the pedestrian heart project this rule is changed. Therefore would it not be advisable to erect warning signs to the pedestrians to the cycling hazard. BMD
  • Score: 0

6:51pm Sat 20 Mar 10

Super steve says...

Its high time all cyclists were required to obtain road insurance the same as the reast of us, And cycles should have number plates so they can be prosecuted for the thousands of breachs of the RTA they carry out.
Just this afternoon I watch a bus have to do an emergency stop near the science labs at Durham Uni. Two cyclists just should off the pavement and cut in front of the bus as it turned right at the traffic lights.

If we are ( rightly) to give cyclists respect and consideration as all other road users then they must be governed and registered the same way as all other road vehicles. Taxed, Insured, Registered and preferably illuminated.
Its high time all cyclists were required to obtain road insurance the same as the reast of us, And cycles should have number plates so they can be prosecuted for the thousands of breachs of the RTA they carry out. Just this afternoon I watch a bus have to do an emergency stop near the science labs at Durham Uni. Two cyclists just should off the pavement and cut in front of the bus as it turned right at the traffic lights. If we are ( rightly) to give cyclists respect and consideration as all other road users then they must be governed and registered the same way as all other road vehicles. Taxed, Insured, Registered and preferably illuminated. Super steve
  • Score: 0

8:29am Sun 21 Mar 10

miketually says...

Laird, the council haven't bought 80 bikes, and they're not going to. The bikes are to be bought by DarloVelo with funding won from Bike Hub, a bike industry fund.
.
Nick, cars are allocated far more space on urban roads than they need. Why do they deserve so much more space than pedestrians and cyclists? Recently, the number of trips made by car in Darlington fell by 10% and cycle trips increased by 79%; should some road space not be reallocated to take account of this shift?
.
BMD, now that we are in the 21st century, should we not start to move away from the 20th century transport system, based upon low-occupancy motor vehicles?
.
We could have some big, blue rectangles with white bikes painted upon them at the end of every street in the town centre from which motor vehicles are banned between 10am and 5pm but bikes still have access. Would that be enough?

Steve, I wonder at what level insurance companies would set the premium? Of the almost 30,000 people killed or seriously injured in Britain's roads each year, what percentage are caused by bikes? That would be a good starting point for setting premiums, do you think?
Laird, the council haven't bought 80 bikes, and they're not going to. The bikes are to be bought by DarloVelo with funding won from Bike Hub, a bike industry fund. . Nick, cars are allocated far more space on urban roads than they need. Why do they deserve so much more space than pedestrians and cyclists? Recently, the number of trips made by car in Darlington fell by 10% and cycle trips increased by 79%; should some road space not be reallocated to take account of this shift? . BMD, now that we are in the 21st century, should we not start to move away from the 20th century transport system, based upon low-occupancy motor vehicles? . We could have some big, blue rectangles with white bikes painted upon them at the end of every street in the town centre from which motor vehicles are banned between 10am and 5pm but bikes still have access. Would that be enough? Steve, I wonder at what level insurance companies would set the premium? Of the almost 30,000 people killed or seriously injured in Britain's roads each year, what percentage are caused by bikes? That would be a good starting point for setting premiums, do you think? miketually
  • Score: 0

9:53am Sun 21 Mar 10

Laird says...

answer my question mike.
are men going to be allowed to rent the bikes?
answer my question mike. are men going to be allowed to rent the bikes? Laird
  • Score: 0

10:51am Sun 21 Mar 10

miketually says...

Do you want one?
Do you want one? miketually
  • Score: 0

11:47am Sun 21 Mar 10

BMD says...

Mike,
May I suggest a Big RED triangle with a Black Bicycle painted on it, with the words underneath:- Beware Cyclists on a Pedestrian Highway.
.
After all Bikes can KILL!
Mike, May I suggest a Big RED triangle with a Black Bicycle painted on it, with the words underneath:- Beware Cyclists on a Pedestrian Highway. . After all Bikes can KILL! BMD
  • Score: 0

12:15pm Sun 21 Mar 10

miketually says...

BMD, that would be an illegal sign.
.
The town centre is not a pedestrian highway, whatever one of those is. It is a series of roads from which motorised vehicles are sometimes restricted from entering.
.
You can have the big red warning triangles when cars have to have a man with a red flag walking in front of them again.
BMD, that would be an illegal sign. . The town centre is not a pedestrian highway, whatever one of those is. It is a series of roads from which motorised vehicles are sometimes restricted from entering. . You can have the big red warning triangles when cars have to have a man with a red flag walking in front of them again. miketually
  • Score: 0

12:28pm Sun 21 Mar 10

Laird says...

My parents are interested in renting them Mike.
Can my Father rent one? Or are they just for the Ladies?
My parents are interested in renting them Mike. Can my Father rent one? Or are they just for the Ladies? Laird
  • Score: 0

1:23pm Sun 21 Mar 10

*shakes head slowly* says...

Laird - you actually qualify whether these bikes are exclusively for ladies or not, from the way you're acting on this thread. Man up, ffs!!!

LOLLL@big pink-laced contributions!!!!
Laird - you actually qualify whether these bikes are exclusively for ladies or not, from the way you're acting on this thread. Man up, ffs!!! LOLLL@big pink-laced contributions!!!! *shakes head slowly*
  • Score: 0

1:32pm Sun 21 Mar 10

Laird says...

Here we go with SHS sticking her nose in again.
Why don't you do us all a favour and go take your face for a sh*t
LOLLLLLLLL - not!
Here we go with SHS sticking her nose in again. Why don't you do us all a favour and go take your face for a sh*t LOLLLLLLLL - not! Laird
  • Score: 0

5:32pm Sun 21 Mar 10

BMD says...

Mike,
You stated earlier that motorized vehicles are prevented from using the Pedestrian area between 10:00 A.M. and 5:00 P.M.
.
It has been proven that bikes are as capable of killing a pedestrian as much as a car can.
.
Therefore you must agree, it would be sensible and less of a liability for the Council to enforce the Pedestrian heart project a cycle free zone between the above times.
.
After all, how long would it take a cyclist to walk his bicycle through this area. Plus this would prove which cyclists are community spirited.
Mike, You stated earlier that motorized vehicles are prevented from using the Pedestrian area between 10:00 A.M. and 5:00 P.M. . It has been proven that bikes are as capable of killing a pedestrian as much as a car can. . Therefore you must agree, it would be sensible and less of a liability for the Council to enforce the Pedestrian heart project a cycle free zone between the above times. . After all, how long would it take a cyclist to walk his bicycle through this area. Plus this would prove which cyclists are community spirited. BMD
  • Score: 0

5:46pm Sun 21 Mar 10

*shakes head slowly* says...

Laird - can anyone use your hilarious jokes - or are they for ladies use only, like all your other contributions??? LOLLL@cycle-haters!!
!
Laird - can anyone use your hilarious jokes - or are they for ladies use only, like all your other contributions??? LOLLL@cycle-haters!! ! *shakes head slowly*
  • Score: 0

6:13pm Sun 21 Mar 10

Laird says...

A cyclehater?
I am a cyclist myself SHS, not on the scale of Mike though.

Still, no-one has answered the question on whether the bikes are on hire to females only.
A cyclehater? I am a cyclist myself SHS, not on the scale of Mike though. Still, no-one has answered the question on whether the bikes are on hire to females only. Laird
  • Score: 0

6:42pm Sun 21 Mar 10

miketually says...

If you're over 11, you can join the DarloVelo club. If you're a member of the club, you can hire a bike.
.
All the bikes are "women's" bikes, but I rode one quite happily for a month.
If you're over 11, you can join the DarloVelo club. If you're a member of the club, you can hire a bike. . All the bikes are "women's" bikes, but I rode one quite happily for a month. miketually
  • Score: 0

6:43pm Sun 21 Mar 10

BMD says...

Laird,
In the town centre on a weekend, the Bikes for hire are the females.
Laird, In the town centre on a weekend, the Bikes for hire are the females. BMD
  • Score: 0

6:46pm Sun 21 Mar 10

miketually says...

BMD, one person killed by a bike is not the same as proof that bikes can kill people just as easily as cars.
.
The question of whether bikes should be allowed in the "Pedestrian Heart" has been looked at and a decision reached.
BMD, one person killed by a bike is not the same as proof that bikes can kill people just as easily as cars. . The question of whether bikes should be allowed in the "Pedestrian Heart" has been looked at and a decision reached. miketually
  • Score: 0

7:01pm Sun 21 Mar 10

BMD says...

The mistakes this Council have made, does not reassure me that the decision is correct.
.
Will Darlington Council be liable if somebody is seriously injured by a cyclist, after all no cyclist is insured and there are no warning signs to alert the pedestrians! or will it be a civil matter?
The mistakes this Council have made, does not reassure me that the decision is correct. . Will Darlington Council be liable if somebody is seriously injured by a cyclist, after all no cyclist is insured and there are no warning signs to alert the pedestrians! or will it be a civil matter? BMD
  • Score: 0

9:19am Mon 22 Mar 10

miketually says...

Why would more warnings, as well as all the big blue rectangles with pictures of bikes on them, be needed?

The decision to allow cyclists to continue to use the roads, as they did before they were closed to motor vehicles, followed DFT guidance and is probably one of the most scrutinised and debated decisions that the Council has made.

Liability will be exactly the same as any other road traffic accident. Did you ever think that there's a reason that cyclists are not required to be insured but drivers are? (In fact, there are a few hundred thousand reasons each year.)
Why would more warnings, as well as all the big blue rectangles with pictures of bikes on them, be needed? The decision to allow cyclists to continue to use the roads, as they did before they were closed to motor vehicles, followed DFT guidance and is probably one of the most scrutinised and debated decisions that the Council has made. Liability will be exactly the same as any other road traffic accident. Did you ever think that there's a reason that cyclists are not required to be insured but drivers are? (In fact, there are a few hundred thousand reasons each year.) miketually
  • Score: 0

11:41am Mon 22 Mar 10

BMD says...

Mike,
I must take it from your answers, that your only priority is your own self interest.
.
You have stated that you are an Assertive / Aggressive cyclist, whom has no consideration for other road user's, you are unable to even acknowledge the fact cyclists can pose a danger to pedestrians, you declined to answer the community spirited question and you are not prepared to dismount your bicycle to walk a maximum of 5 minutes to cross the Pedestrian heart scheme.
.
I only hope you never have an accident with a pedestrian, pensioner, or a disabled person.
You could seriously injury or even kill someone.
.
But then you could use the excuse that it was the motorized vehicle owners fault for not giving you your own cycle lane.
Mike, I must take it from your answers, that your only priority is your own self interest. . You have stated that you are an Assertive / Aggressive cyclist, whom has no consideration for other road user's, you are unable to even acknowledge the fact cyclists can pose a danger to pedestrians, you declined to answer the community spirited question and you are not prepared to dismount your bicycle to walk a maximum of 5 minutes to cross the Pedestrian heart scheme. . I only hope you never have an accident with a pedestrian, pensioner, or a disabled person. You could seriously injury or even kill someone. . But then you could use the excuse that it was the motorized vehicle owners fault for not giving you your own cycle lane. BMD
  • Score: 0

12:10pm Mon 22 Mar 10

miketually says...

BMD, I shall have to take it from your conclusions that you've either not read, or not understood, what I've written.
.
I have stated that I am an assertive (not aggressive) cyclist who takes the primary road position when approaching dangerous points on the road, as recommended by the HMSO-published Cyclecraft and by the Institute of Advanced Motorists.
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I have acknowledged that cyclists pose a danger to pedestrians, but have stated that this is many orders of magnitude smaller than the various dangers posed by motorised vehicles and therefore insurance is not needed.
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I'm not sure to what "community spirited question" you think I'm not providing an answer.
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The issue of cycling in the town centre has been discussed at length.
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If cyclists were required to walk through the town centre, they wouldn't. The (few) 'dangerous' cyclists would continue to ride there. Some would give up on cycling and revert to driving, which poses a greater over all risk to pedestrians. Most would ride on the ring road, which is the most dangerous place in the town for cyclists and where there have been serious injuries in the last few years.
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I also hope that I never have an accident with a pedestrian, pensioner or a disabled person, and I don't intend to do so. Firstly, because I'd not ever want to hurt someone. Secondly, because it's highly likely that such an accident would result in harm to myself; something that is not a consideration for anyone safely cocooned in their metal box.
BMD, I shall have to take it from your conclusions that you've either not read, or not understood, what I've written. . I have stated that I am an assertive (not aggressive) cyclist who takes the primary road position when approaching dangerous points on the road, as recommended by the HMSO-published Cyclecraft and by the Institute of Advanced Motorists. . I have acknowledged that cyclists pose a danger to pedestrians, but have stated that this is many orders of magnitude smaller than the various dangers posed by motorised vehicles and therefore insurance is not needed. . I'm not sure to what "community spirited question" you think I'm not providing an answer. . The issue of cycling in the town centre has been discussed at length. . If cyclists were required to walk through the town centre, they wouldn't. The (few) 'dangerous' cyclists would continue to ride there. Some would give up on cycling and revert to driving, which poses a greater over all risk to pedestrians. Most would ride on the ring road, which is the most dangerous place in the town for cyclists and where there have been serious injuries in the last few years. . I also hope that I never have an accident with a pedestrian, pensioner or a disabled person, and I don't intend to do so. Firstly, because I'd not ever want to hurt someone. Secondly, because it's highly likely that such an accident would result in harm to myself; something that is not a consideration for anyone safely cocooned in their metal box. miketually
  • Score: 0

1:26pm Mon 22 Mar 10

Mordillo says...

Can't you just tell Miketually is not a motorist
Can't you just tell Miketually is not a motorist Mordillo
  • Score: 0

1:31pm Mon 22 Mar 10

melwilson says...

I fail to see what your point is there Mordillo ...
I fail to see what your point is there Mordillo ... melwilson
  • Score: 0

1:34pm Mon 22 Mar 10

Mordillo says...

from his anti car comments
from his anti car comments Mordillo
  • Score: 0

1:37pm Mon 22 Mar 10

melwilson says...

yes, but what's your point? So what?
yes, but what's your point? So what? melwilson
  • Score: 0

1:54pm Mon 22 Mar 10

Mordillo says...

ah, Melissa Wilson, another non motorist and a member of the anti car brigade.
ah, Melissa Wilson, another non motorist and a member of the anti car brigade. Mordillo
  • Score: 0

2:18pm Mon 22 Mar 10

atomheartfather says...

Hi All,

Ah the joys of online discussion about cycling in Darlington.

BMD wrote:
Mike,
Let’s get into the 21st century; cycling is now considered a leisure activity,

Er, if you examine transport policy trends throughout the developed world, I'm afraid cycling is 21st century, motoring, especially in towns and cities, is 20th.

Laird wrote:
Mike,
Are the 80 bikes which the council have bought going to be hired out to both male and female residents?

Why are some posters so casual with their reading of the news? Ah yes, Darlington. Small town. Council does EVERYTHING here. The funds have been raised by the voluntary sector, from the bike industry.

BMD wrote:
The mistakes this Council have made, does not reassure me that the decision is correct.

So how far back should we go with these mistakes? The building of the inner ring road?

The reason cycling is a 21st century form of transport is that it can solve many of the wider problems generated by car-centric transport policies. Can we please raise the level of debate above the small town "a cyclist MIGHT hurt an old lady" pettiness, and consider for a second the longer-term implications of, say, preferring a parking space for our car outside our house to making our street safe for our children to play in?
Hi All, Ah the joys of online discussion about cycling in Darlington. BMD wrote: Mike, Let’s get into the 21st century; cycling is now considered a leisure activity, Er, if you examine transport policy trends throughout the developed world, I'm afraid cycling is 21st century, motoring, especially in towns and cities, is 20th. Laird wrote: Mike, Are the 80 bikes which the council have bought going to be hired out to both male and female residents? Why are some posters so casual with their reading of the news? Ah yes, Darlington. Small town. Council does EVERYTHING here. The funds have been raised by the voluntary sector, from the bike industry. BMD wrote: The mistakes this Council have made, does not reassure me that the decision is correct. So how far back should we go with these mistakes? The building of the inner ring road? The reason cycling is a 21st century form of transport is that it can solve many of the wider problems generated by car-centric transport policies. Can we please raise the level of debate above the small town "a cyclist MIGHT hurt an old lady" pettiness, and consider for a second the longer-term implications of, say, preferring a parking space for our car outside our house to making our street safe for our children to play in? atomheartfather
  • Score: 0

2:27pm Mon 22 Mar 10

miketually says...

Mordillo, I'm pro-cycling, rather than anti-car. Thanks for your constructive participation in the discussion though.
Mordillo, I'm pro-cycling, rather than anti-car. Thanks for your constructive participation in the discussion though. miketually
  • Score: 0

4:56pm Mon 22 Mar 10

Mordillo says...

Miketually, I am also pro-cycling, however what I do not agree with is reducing speed limits and causing congestion for motorists all in the name of promoting cycling, what is needed is more tolerance between all road users.
Miketually, I am also pro-cycling, however what I do not agree with is reducing speed limits and causing congestion for motorists all in the name of promoting cycling, what is needed is more tolerance between all road users. Mordillo
  • Score: 0

4:59pm Mon 22 Mar 10

miketually says...

Slower speed limits massively reduce road casualties.
Slower speed limits massively reduce road casualties. miketually
  • Score: 0

5:13pm Mon 22 Mar 10

Mordillo says...

You're saying this as a non-motorist, learn to drive and then try driving at 20mph.

It is not speed limits that need to be reduced it's the standard of driving which needs to be looked at and pedestrian education, when was the last time you saw the green cross code or anything similar advertised on the TV?

Both these will massively reduce road casualities.
You're saying this as a non-motorist, learn to drive and then try driving at 20mph. It is not speed limits that need to be reduced it's the standard of driving which needs to be looked at and pedestrian education, when was the last time you saw the green cross code or anything similar advertised on the TV? Both these will massively reduce road casualities. Mordillo
  • Score: 0

5:21pm Mon 22 Mar 10

miketually says...

The standard urban speed limit in much of Europe is 30kmph, which is 18mph. are they better drivers than us? 20 also seems to be working in Portsmouth.
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All primary school children now get pedestrian training, which is way more effective than a sub-superhero, hedgehog or squirrel telling them to stop look and listen.
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However, kids do stupid things sometimes and having cars driving slower means they're less likely to be hit and less likely to be killed if they are hit.
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Is there any evidence that lower speed limits increases congestion? if it encouraged people to walk or cycle instead of drive, there would be fewer cars on the road...
The standard urban speed limit in much of Europe is 30kmph, which is 18mph. are they better drivers than us? 20 also seems to be working in Portsmouth. . All primary school children now get pedestrian training, which is way more effective than a sub-superhero, hedgehog or squirrel telling them to stop look and listen. . However, kids do stupid things sometimes and having cars driving slower means they're less likely to be hit and less likely to be killed if they are hit. . Is there any evidence that lower speed limits increases congestion? if it encouraged people to walk or cycle instead of drive, there would be fewer cars on the road... miketually
  • Score: 0

5:21pm Mon 22 Mar 10

miketually says...

And who says that I've never driven a car?
And who says that I've never driven a car? miketually
  • Score: 0

7:00pm Mon 22 Mar 10

BMD says...

.
Mike,
I am sorry but your comments don’t add up, the "aggressive" tag was labeled with a smiley face, therefore a reasonable conclusion that this comment was tongue in cheek.
.
I note you agree that cyclists do pose a danger to pedestrians, but fortunately as you stated there is no motorized vehicles in the pedestrian areas between the times of 10 A.M. and 5 P.M. unlike cyclists.
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The "Community spirited" question relates to cyclists dismounting there bicycles and joining there fellow citizens and walking through the pedestrian areas.
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I am sure the dismounting bicycles for a short walk, would not discourage people from cycling. It would be easier to police and CCTV would be able to identify the culprits (They could even publish there face's in the Town Crier.) There is at great expense a cycle path around the ring road system and the areas that there isn’t a unconfident cyclist could dismount and walk on the pavement.
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Just to put the record straight, I am a leisure cyclist, I prefer to walk into the town centre or catch a bus if its raining. I do drive a car but only when I have heavy goods to pick up and 90% of the time when I need to drive I shop at Teesside park, less congestion plus free parking.
. Mike, I am sorry but your comments don’t add up, the "aggressive" tag was labeled with a smiley face, therefore a reasonable conclusion that this comment was tongue in cheek. . I note you agree that cyclists do pose a danger to pedestrians, but fortunately as you stated there is no motorized vehicles in the pedestrian areas between the times of 10 A.M. and 5 P.M. unlike cyclists. . The "Community spirited" question relates to cyclists dismounting there bicycles and joining there fellow citizens and walking through the pedestrian areas. . I am sure the dismounting bicycles for a short walk, would not discourage people from cycling. It would be easier to police and CCTV would be able to identify the culprits (They could even publish there face's in the Town Crier.) There is at great expense a cycle path around the ring road system and the areas that there isn’t a unconfident cyclist could dismount and walk on the pavement. . Just to put the record straight, I am a leisure cyclist, I prefer to walk into the town centre or catch a bus if its raining. I do drive a car but only when I have heavy goods to pick up and 90% of the time when I need to drive I shop at Teesside park, less congestion plus free parking. BMD
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7:59pm Mon 22 Mar 10

miketually says...

Everything poses some danger to everything else.
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Cyclists pose a pretty small danger to pedestrians, which is why they're not barred from the town centre.
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Cars pose a bigger danger to cyclists.
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A cyclist on the ring road is more likely to be seriously injured by a car than than they are to injure a pedestrian in the town centre.
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Human nature says that those cyclists not put off cycling altogether by a ban in the centre would ride around the ring road rather than dismounting to walk through. A ban would lead to more injuries.
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There have been several cyclists knocked off their bike on the Parkgate roundabout. Why will car drivers not do the community-spirited thing and get from one side of the town to the other by driving around the bypass, which has been built at great expense?
Everything poses some danger to everything else. . Cyclists pose a pretty small danger to pedestrians, which is why they're not barred from the town centre. . Cars pose a bigger danger to cyclists. . A cyclist on the ring road is more likely to be seriously injured by a car than than they are to injure a pedestrian in the town centre. . Human nature says that those cyclists not put off cycling altogether by a ban in the centre would ride around the ring road rather than dismounting to walk through. A ban would lead to more injuries. . There have been several cyclists knocked off their bike on the Parkgate roundabout. Why will car drivers not do the community-spirited thing and get from one side of the town to the other by driving around the bypass, which has been built at great expense? miketually
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8:22am Thu 25 Mar 10

Brian Vigurs says...

Wow – some rhetoric here folks!
Pro cycling – Pro car – Pro pedestrian you name it!
I use a cycle whenever possible, but also do around 80,000 miles a year by car, mainly for work.
I’ve seen bad drivers, bad cyclists and bad pedestrians.
Slagging each other off will not improve the situation of cycle versa car versa pedestrian.
Non of the above “owns” the road, though road tax payers may well disagree (for which I have my sympathies), but each user must respect the other by showing tolerance, patience and courtesy.
The roads would be a far better and safer place for all.
Wow – some rhetoric here folks! Pro cycling – Pro car – Pro pedestrian you name it! I use a cycle whenever possible, but also do around 80,000 miles a year by car, mainly for work. I’ve seen bad drivers, bad cyclists and bad pedestrians. Slagging each other off will not improve the situation of cycle versa car versa pedestrian. Non of the above “owns” the road, though road tax payers may well disagree (for which I have my sympathies), but each user must respect the other by showing tolerance, patience and courtesy. The roads would be a far better and safer place for all. Brian Vigurs
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9:24am Thu 25 Mar 10

miketually says...

"road tax payers may well disagree (for which I have my sympathies)"

Nobody has paid road tax since 1937...
"road tax payers may well disagree (for which I have my sympathies)" Nobody has paid road tax since 1937... miketually
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11:13am Thu 25 Mar 10

Brian Vigurs says...

Indeed Mike - Let me make a correction - Road fund licence do?
Indeed Mike - Let me make a correction - Road fund licence do? Brian Vigurs
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11:39am Thu 25 Mar 10

miketually says...

Vehicle Excise Duty (VED).
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It's a tax on the ownership of motor vehicles. It's not a tax to pay for the roads.
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Churchill was worried that if one group of users were "paying for the roads" they would resent the other users. It seems that he was right :)
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Everyone who pays any sort of tax pays for the roads.
Vehicle Excise Duty (VED). . It's a tax on the ownership of motor vehicles. It's not a tax to pay for the roads. . Churchill was worried that if one group of users were "paying for the roads" they would resent the other users. It seems that he was right :) . Everyone who pays any sort of tax pays for the roads. miketually
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1:19pm Thu 25 Mar 10

Brian Vigurs says...

Well you live and learn Mike - but I reckon most reading my post would understand my meaning.
Me thinks you have to much time on your hands!
Well you live and learn Mike - but I reckon most reading my post would understand my meaning. Me thinks you have to much time on your hands! Brian Vigurs
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2:31pm Thu 25 Mar 10

miketually says...

"Non of the above “owns” the road, though road tax payers may well disagree (for which I have my sympathies)"
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It's an important point though. Nobody owns the road, and so everyone has equal right to access it safely.
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In fact, in law, the disabled, pedestrians and cyclists (in that order) have the most right.
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That's important to recognise when it comes to, for example, removing a protected right turn so that there's space for a proper cycle lane/path; replacing pinch point-causing pedestrian islands with full-width controlled crossings; or making some roads impermeable to motor vehicles.
"Non of the above “owns” the road, though road tax payers may well disagree (for which I have my sympathies)" . It's an important point though. Nobody owns the road, and so everyone has equal right to access it safely. . In fact, in law, the disabled, pedestrians and cyclists (in that order) have the most right. . That's important to recognise when it comes to, for example, removing a protected right turn so that there's space for a proper cycle lane/path; replacing pinch point-causing pedestrian islands with full-width controlled crossings; or making some roads impermeable to motor vehicles. miketually
  • Score: 0

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