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The Hoskins, in Darlington, forced to remove sign refusing soldiers access


A PUB has been accused of discriminating against the Armed Forces after barring squaddies at certain times of the week.

Sharon Lupton, 52, whose son has served in Afghanistan, forced The Hoskins, in Darlington, to take down a sign which said that groups of well-behaved squaddies were welcome – but not on Fridays and Saturdays after 7pm and not after 3pm on Sundays.

Despite the concession, however, the chain which runs the pub said its policy of refusing entry to large groups of Army personnel at the allotted times remains in place.

Mrs Lupton, of Lorraine Crescent, Darlington, whose son, Paul Leonard, is an aircraft technician with the RAF and has twice served in Afghanistan, wrote to the Barracuda Group after her daughter alerted her to the sign above a door.

She said: “I am really irate.

I just find it discrimination.

Why can’t they come in and have a drink whenever they want? And why take the sign down if the policy still stands?

It is pointless.”

In her letter, Mrs Lupton said she was appalled by the sign, adding: “I thought pubs employed doormen to stop any trouble and eject the people causing it, regardless of their colour, occupation or any other agenda.

“My family, friends and I will not be using this pub until [you] give our servicemen and women the respect and admiration they deserve.”

Sarah Calderbank, a spokeswoman for the pub group, said the pub had reviewed the way it communicated its policy after admitting the wording of the sign had provoked the wrong sort of response.

She said there had been a number of incidents over the past few years involving groups of intoxicated Army personnel in the Darlington area and it had long been an emotive subject among licensees.

She said this had led to some licensees in the town refusing entry, while others, including The Hoskins, had adopted a policy to restrict admittance.

The spokeswoman said the pub’s continued stance was particularly aimed at Army personnel from Catterick Garrison, in North Yorkshire.

She said: “The Hoskins is a family-friendly pub that serves food throughout the day and evening. While we do welcome customers from the Armed Forces, we reserve the right to refuse large groups if we believe they have the potential to impact on other customers’ enjoyment of the pub.

“We do accept that the sign may have caused unnecessary offence to Mrs Lupton and that is the reason the manager took it down, however, our policy on large groups of squaddies will remain.”

Darlington businessman Alasdair MacConachie, chairman of the Independent Advisory Panel of Catterick Garrison’s Infantry Training Centre and a former soldier, said: “To put these signs up is an absolute disgrace and discrimination in my considered view.

“I am very supportive of the military who do a fantastic job and there is a lot of strong support for them in Darlington.

“Generally speaking, if a squaddie misbehaves they will be fiercely dealt with when they get back to barracks and are fined and subject to disciplinary procedures.”

Sergeant Dave Kirton, of Durham Police, who manages the town centre beat team in Darlington, said soldiers and other members of the Armed Forces caused an “insignificant amount” of trouble.

He said: “We don’t agree with any particular group in the community being automatically barred, whether it is soldiers or anyone else.”

■ A snapshot survey by The Northern Echo of ten town centre pubs found that none had a policy of automatically turning away groups from the military services.

Carl Mafham, joint manager of the Red Lion, in Priestgate, said: “If they come in and treat the place right and don’t cause any hassle we have no reason to turn them away.”

Robert Watson, manager of Tanners Hall, in Skinnergate, added: “If they behave themselves we let them in. Ninety nine per cent of them are fine.

It’s just the one per cent who give them a bad name.”

Comments(35)

scott thornberry says...
8:45am Mon 8 Feb 10

i don't agree with policies like this, not just because it is barring military personnel for no other reason than their occupation, but because it is blatent discrimination and it is something which is rife in the pub industry.

There are other policies which have been put in place, not in Darlington as far as I know, which is quite laughable and I do not really know how they get away with it. On a recent night out in York I was out with about 8 or 9 mates. We were actually turned away from several pubs because "no groups of lads are allowed in". So we were barred because there were more than 2 or 3 of us. So for the rest of the night we had to split up like little children around the corner from the pub and then walk in as though we did not know each other. And I won't even mention the 'free entry for ladies' promotions.

Imagine if you advertised a job and stated that no soldiers and no men too apply, attractive ladies only please.

darlochoc says...
9:48am Mon 8 Feb 10

sorry but being a single woman in the town I know just how bad the squaddies can be, they won't take no for an answer and I have in the past had to leave a pub so that I am not hassled by them, I know this is the minority but its a case of them spoiling it for the majority, fair enough they do a good job for the country but its not a valid chat up line for me, they come to the town on a major **** up and think they own the place, I know a lot of women in the town who feel the same way, I tend to go out during the week to avoid them....

waiting to be shot down in flames now.....

kennc says...
10:06am Mon 8 Feb 10

I don't think that squaddies are any different to others, apart from the fact that they have been under a lot of pressure in a war zone, something that many bar owners and pub land lords have probably never done and don't understand.
If you wish to ban anyone then ban the local thugs, how cause the trouble on a regular basis, not those fighting for their country.
I do understand that this bar chain is South African and not Bristish.

Ian James says...
11:24am Mon 8 Feb 10

Who cares anyway? coz the town centre is full of dings full stop. Whether they be, squaddies, townies, gypos, hooligans, druggies, pisspots and slappers!!! There'll all be having a big orgy with each other up Bucktons yard this Saturday night at 9pm, with the Police at the front of the queue, and a couple of bent councillors to with some sussies on!!! lol.

Super steve says...
12:13pm Mon 8 Feb 10

Outragous , truly outragous, I thought discimination like this was consigned to history decades ago.
I remember reading about a pub in the West Indies that had a notice in the window saying " No Dogs or English Sailors allowed"

This pub should be prosecuted and have its licence removed. Soldier and their families spend hundreds of thousands of pounds each year in Darlington.

gary123 says...
12:40pm Mon 8 Feb 10

Disgusting.
Why not ban black people or women?
Because its discrimination, thats why.
Stupid narrowminded people, taking the easy option, its not the squaddies who are the problem.
Its the local darlo scum and gyppo yobs who ruin it.
I am glad to be out when there are members of our armed forces are too, its reassuring.
Just remember these people are the ones protecting your freedom and our way of life.
Sod the Hoskins then, if thats their attitude, ill go elsewhere to spend my money.
By the way, im not in the forces, I just respect them.

darlo-rhino says...
12:54pm Mon 8 Feb 10

I have now lived in Darlington for 9 years and I find Darlington to be quite a discrimanatory town in general. I addition to its attitude towards Soldiers also consider its attitude towards 'hawkers' prior to coming here I'd never heard of this term other than to describe someone in Victorian Times who sold their wares. In Darlington it is a derogatory term aimed towards an ethnic group which would no longer betolerated aimed at other goups elsewhere. I find this towns attitude towards squaddies to be generally poor. Perhaps they should look ath the behaviour of 'townies' before they criticise elsewhere. And as one last point - are the annoting boy racers who hang around each evening on the commercial street car park Squaddies/Hawkers or indeed Darlingtons own little darlings.

Big Dave says...
1:43pm Mon 8 Feb 10

...what about the working men's clubs, eh? No women in the bar...and they wonder why they're dying out. It's up to the pub if they want to ban people- no one's forcing anyone to drink there and the pub in question's a dump anyway

cj-dog says...
2:04pm Mon 8 Feb 10

The pub obviously thinks that if the place is full of soldiers then there will be no room for the local chavs, under-age girls and drug dealers who normally frequent the place.
I hope the police repeatedly blitz this place at the times when soldiers are barred - business will certainly suffer.

JS2 says...
4:27pm Mon 8 Feb 10

The following are the latest policing priorities for D'ton town centre in Central ward.
Priorities for Central and Town Centre. There is always trouble in town centres and often military police in towns where there are a lot of military or naval personell often patrol with local police. As an Echo reporter did with military police in D'ton the other week.
The current priorities for your neighbourhood are:

Central:- Anti-Social Behaviour & Drug Actvity Pensbury Street
DAD PACT:-Increase positive investigations of incidents towards people with disabilities.
DAD PACT:- Illegal parking/obstruction in Town Centre & Cockerton Green
LGBT:- Anti-Social use of motor vehicles in the Town Centre on Monday evenings.
LGBT:- Homophobic incidents in the Yarm Road/Kensington Gardens area
Pubwatch:- Anti-Social Behaviour Tubwell Row
Central:-Anti-Social behaviour & Drug Actvity Sanderson Street
Central:- Anti-Social behaviour, Drug actvity & domestic violence Killinghall Street & Prescott Street
LGBT PACT: Increase positive investigations
LGBT PACT: Police Training and Awareness
Pubwatch:- Anti-Social behaviour involving Army personnel visiting the Town Centre
DAD PACT:- Irresponsible cycling in Town Centre
Central:- Anti-Social Behaviour and drug activity Sanderson Street
Shopwatch:- Begging around the Town Centre
Shopwatch:- Illegal parking & moving traffic in Skinnergate
Shopwatch:-Open vessels in Skinnergate
These are the policing priorities that local people have agreed with your policing team. You can have some influence on future policing priorities by attending your next PACT meeting.

Colin Wood says...
5:01pm Mon 8 Feb 10

The soldiers should use the Green Dragon as a meeting point where the Townies collect washing cream and deodorants etc for them in a box behind bar. Paul Thompson does a Facebook group in support of our Troops with 35,000 members.
The Slaters has got a Help for Hero's sticker in window also.

Senor says...
5:29pm Mon 8 Feb 10

I ran a Pub in Richmond for a number of years and no trouble whatsoever with "men/women in uniform". I had all armed services and can honestly say that if you treat them right, they will treat your pub right. Since leaving the the pub business, people have asked me "do you miss the Pub?" My answer, "No I don't miss the Pub but I miss the squaddies". The most trouble was local civilians.
If you cannot gain the respect of armed forces clientelle, then you should not run a Pub. If armed forces cause trouble they are severely punished not only by their C.O. but also local magistrates who haone set of laws for armed forces and one for locals. Armed forces are not the culprits in the Pubs, it is the jealous locals.

Aeriel says...
5:41pm Mon 8 Feb 10

I'll have to agree with darlo-rhino & Big Dave and a few others on this; this story does reflect discrimination. I no longer go into the town as I've said before because I don't like the groups of drunken people there on a Friday/Sat night, regardless of whether they are soldiers or not. Also because I'm probably a bit too old at 30-odd to be going round pubs drinking and cant hold my drink anymore !! But I can remember 15-20 years ago when I did go out and there were groups of soldiers drinking in the the town there were minor 'incidents' between them and town lads just as much as there were 'incidents' between other groups of people, regardless of who they were. It's up to the bar staff/management to sort out bad or other problem behaviour, not discriminate complete groups of people and bar them completely.

AllanFraser says...
6:01pm Mon 8 Feb 10

Hoskins is presumably privately owned and therfore have the right to bar whoever they want, whenever they want from their property, just like homeowners.

sweety12 says...
9:23pm Mon 8 Feb 10

i am in agreement with Mrs Luptons comments , there are plenty of other factions in the town that cause trouble (even deaths) over the past months. The armed forces should fully have our support behind them.They are good enough to fight for our country they should be good enough to have a drink in it.

D D Coy says...
10:35pm Mon 8 Feb 10

Reminded me of the Rudyard Kipling Poem.....

"Tommy"


I WENT into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ;
But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, wait outside ";
But it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

A century later and nothing has changed!

Scaffinch says...
10:36pm Mon 8 Feb 10

Hmm... if I was a member of the Armed Forces who frequented Darlington on a Friday/Saturday night, I wouldn't be crying into my pint if I wasn't allowed into The Hoskins. Back when its was Humphrey's (and later the Barracuda Bar), it was god-awful then - always packed with tanked-up morons, full of aggro, & (although I haven't been in since it changed) I can't imagine it has improved much since it was "re-branded" - it's a shame that this pub has always been a bit of a fly in the ointment for what is regarded by some as the "better-end" (if there is such a thing) of the town centre on a weekend night.

As Aeriel points out above, when I used to go out in town regularly a few years back, there were always a few groups of solidiers out having a drink - the vast majority of whom never caused trouble, only the occasional minor incident (but no more so than other "groups"). But I've seen plenty of far more serious incidents involving so-called "townies" & blatently-underage drinkers fighting amongst themselves and being aggressive towards people who just want to have a drink in peace, with not a single soldier in sight, so to stigmatise all Army personnel in this way is, quite frankly, wrong.

Incidentally, seeing as the national economy is supposed to be coming out of a recession, and the pub industry has been suffering for a good few years now (with god-knows how many pubs closing each week around the country), where is the logic in barring a certain group of people who have disposable income & are willing to spend it in your establishment (which, I presume, has licensed doormen to deal with any "problems" amongst drinkers, no matter what social grouping they belong to)?

stevebrown says...
1:53am Tue 9 Feb 10

the pub is a **** hole anyway, let's hope it's empty at the weekend and every where is buzzing, BAN HOSKINS, support our troops.

stevebrown says...
1:53am Tue 9 Feb 10

the pub is a **** hole anyway, let's hope it's empty at the weekend and every where is buzzing, BAN HOSKINS, support our troops.

Ian James says...
7:35am Tue 9 Feb 10

Bob Hoskins would be mortified if he new his surname was getting dragged thro the mud like this, in this shameful manner. Coz he'll be sat suppin a large martini in his big mansion somewhere in the hills of Hollywood, losing sleep over this after reading it on the Northern Echo website and wondering what cranks are running this establishment, as if !!! lol.

Ian James says...
7:44am Tue 9 Feb 10

......So I want all of you readers to forget about these poor squaddies for a moment and think how Bob Hoskins will be feelin right now, knowing his surname is getting dragged thro the **** like this and think of the embarrasment it must be causing him............. lol.

Colin Wood says...
9:02am Tue 9 Feb 10

darlo-rhino wrote:
I have now lived in Darlington for 9 years and I find Darlington to be quite a discrimanatory town in general. I addition to its attitude towards Soldiers also consider its attitude towards 'hawkers' prior to coming here I'd never heard of this term other than to describe someone in Victorian Times who sold their wares. In Darlington it is a derogatory term aimed towards an ethnic group which would no longer betolerated aimed at other goups elsewhere. I find this towns attitude towards squaddies to be generally poor. Perhaps they should look ath the behaviour of 'townies' before they criticise elsewhere. And as one last point - are the annoting boy racers who hang around each evening on the commercial street car park Squaddies/Hawkers or indeed Darlingtons own little darlings.
The Hawkers have been organising illegal fights in Darlington since the sixties nobody had heard of Townies until the Hawkers hit the town centre pubs and clubs in the eighties and invented this derogatory racist generalisation so they could play the race card for the courts.
The Gurkha's cause no trouble at all in comparison to the drunkard Fijians who cause trouble with a gang mentality which gets them put in court for violent disorder. Our own British soldier likes a bit of a singalong in good faith and will sort any chew with a traditional one onto one up the back alley.
Some of these steroid freak doorman who commit adultery and mix with loose heroin taking woman should be rounded up flung on a Navy ship and given 49 whips of the cat'o'nine tails.

Super steve says...
10:04am Tue 9 Feb 10

I hope the local Royal British Legion and SSAFA boycott events in Darlington after this outrage, Its a town not worthy of Veterans.

my thoughts towards the owners of this pub are neither gentlemanly nor peaceful.

Super steve says...
10:06am Tue 9 Feb 10

Perhaps Darlos Veterans should organise a peaceful but vocal protest outside this dump at its peak business times?

kelly0102 says...
12:19pm Tue 9 Feb 10

Hi everyone my partner works on the doors at this bar and he says the squaddies arenothing but trouble they intimadate woman especially if there is a large group of squaddies my partner tells me there is often trouble when there is large groups the pub is only looking out for the safety of there customers at the end of the day the door men are there to ensure the safety of others i know the pub is fully supportive ofall those who fight for our country this does not mean they have the right to intimadate women and cause trouble my partner tells me that when there is alot of squaddies together they are hard to control at the end of the day they have a job to do and if complaints have beem put forward then they have to act on that so ppl need to look at it from both points of views thankyou!!

Aeriel says...
5:14pm Tue 9 Feb 10

I just think that 'any' large group, especially when they've been drinking, would be intimidating, whether they are soldiers or not. Also agree that Hoskins is a 'hole'!

Suzydo says...
6:22pm Tue 9 Feb 10

darlochoc wrote:
sorry but being a single woman in the town I know just how bad the squaddies can be, they won't take no for an answer and I have in the past had to leave a pub so that I am not hassled by them, I know this is the minority but its a case of them spoiling it for the majority, fair enough they do a good job for the country but its not a valid chat up line for me, they come to the town on a major **** up and think they own the place, I know a lot of women in the town who feel the same way, I tend to go out during the week to avoid them.... waiting to be shot down in flames now.....
I totally agree with you, me and my friends have left pubs in the past to avoid being hassled by squaddies. I have full respect for the armed forces, I have friends out in Afghan but it does not give them the right to try it on with every girl they meet regardless of if their boyfriend is there or not and Im speaking from personal experience there. Its only a small few that have spoilt it for the rest which is a shame!

BIGBDARLO says...
10:03pm Tue 9 Feb 10

kelly0102 wrote:
Hi everyone my partner works on the doors at this bar and he says the squaddies arenothing but trouble they intimadate woman especially if there is a large group of squaddies my partner tells me there is often trouble when there is large groups the pub is only looking out for the safety of there customers at the end of the day the door men are there to ensure the safety of others i know the pub is fully supportive ofall those who fight for our country this does not mean they have the right to intimadate women and cause trouble my partner tells me that when there is alot of squaddies together they are hard to control at the end of the day they have a job to do and if complaints have beem put forward then they have to act on that so ppl need to look at it from both points of views thankyou!!
Kelly,
Ask your boyfriend if the squaddies are any more difficult to control than large groups of travellers or townies, who are more likely to be drugged up as well as pi**ed up? The pub wouldnt dare put a notice up on the door banning travellers or townies. The soldiers are an easy target as they wont break the no entry rule as they are discipilned and they have too much to lose,as they fall under civilian and military law. Would your fella turn away a group of squaddies missing limbs?
Is your fella quick to jump to the safety of young squaddies targetted by other gangs of lads? If he is its a shame he didnt work on Escapades door the night a young soldier was punched and kicked to death, may he rest in peace. Shame on this town and its small minded mentallity.It doesnt deserve the money the lads from catterick spend in the run down un safe and un welcome pubs

torig says...
11:31am Wed 10 Feb 10

I think certain pubs in Darlington are well known for squaddies, I personally avoid these places as I don't like large groups of drunk men (squaddies or not). However, I wouldn't drink in this place anyway as it's horrid, all that money on a refurbishment at the stinking toilets were never even replaced, the place stinks!

Super steve says...
2:08pm Wed 10 Feb 10

I had a look at this place yesterday, the only people likely to use it NEED to be drunk or Chavs before they would use it. Its the sort of pplace you wipe your feet before you leave.

Aeriel says...
5:38pm Wed 10 Feb 10

Too right BigB & torig. Bloody hell I'm female and have had experience of hassle from drunken blokes (soldiers & not soldiers), you either just tell them where to get off or dont go into the place in the first place! Darlo pubs/eating places/shops get a lot of business from Catterick. You've got to remember that they are young blokes, have a lot of money & hardly get time off and ok not condoning any trouble but they are hardly any different from probably the vast majority of young people who work hard/have a lot of money on their hands, wanting to enjoy their time off & might drink a bit too much, like the vast majority of younger people do. I think they also are likely to be targets from jealous locals/

Duke of Aycliffe says...
6:54pm Wed 10 Feb 10

I was out in Darlo last year for the first time in a couple of years for a family do. Started getting grief from a local balloon head as i didn't look like a Darlo lad. I told him where to go as he was getting on my nerves, he took the message & later i noticed he was giving some one else some slavver who then knocked him on his backside. Result! LOL!
Everyone knows there's trouble makers & rubbishy pubs in every NE town. This real men's beer is great stuff, just that many blokes young & old can't handle it. Also, there's good & bad doormen & soilders.

Duke of Aycliffe says...
7:00pm Wed 10 Feb 10

Also good & bad spellers should have read soldiers!

branco69uk says...
9:54am Fri 12 Feb 10

Duke of Aycliffe wrote:
Also good & bad spellers should have read soldiers!
My son is serving in The Regiment based at RAF Lossiemouth, he's ben to Afghanistan and Iraq on foot patrols and in open top landrovers the only injury he has suffered was a cut to his lower lip and chin by the bottom of a bottle thrust into his face standing at his local bar in Elgin.
This happened beacause he is English! There are always going to be problems but most of these are instigated by ignorant local idiots who think it's good to have a go at these young men and women who are putting thier lives on the line.
On his return from Afghanistan the local TV boarded the plane to film the lads homecoming. The camera was ushered past him and some of his mates because they were not "Scots" Until we can get our own "House" in order why are we trying to sort out others "Houses"
This yob culture is now endemic in our society borne of the "Put him on the naughty step, he's highly strung, he's from a broken home" brigade.

e.poppy says...
11:40pm Sun 14 Feb 10

I'm an ex female squaddie who served at Catterick and had many trouble free excellent nights in Darlington with and without my army colleagues, would I have been barred from this pub by association, I've been informed by a doorman from the pub, that they have been advised to apply this rule to females also, which proves it is discriminating against a certain profession, rather than trouble makers as it claims!, I'd like the statistics on how many female service personnel have been thrown out due to unruly behaviour!!!! I agree people who cause trouble should be barred, of course but that's not always service personnel, I'm from Belfast and one thing I've learnt through 'the troubles' is there is good and bad on both sides, that also applies to civillians and armed forces....
I have witnessed in N.Ireland on many occassions squaddies being picked on by civillians and doormen for no reason other than they are squaddies, these people are jealous of the attention local women pay to these fellas', that doesn't mean all civillians and doormen are like this, just as it does not mean all armed forces are trouble makers, I have an exemplary forces record and no civillian criminal record, why can't I drink in your pub???????
As for the single parent lady who commented on squaddies hitting on her, get a grip woman!!, I'm in the same boat, and men hit on women in general, single women, divorced women, married women, gay women regardless of them being squaddies, civives, black, white, idiots or whatever, if you don't like it tell them to **** off!!!!! as you would any other fella if you weren't interested.
I think this is a total disgrace especially with so many service personnel losing their lives at the moment protecting the British population.
If it wasn't for our armed forces and all their protection, there could quite easily be a big bloody bomb in their pub!!!!! would they welcome the squaddies then?? would they see the bomb disposal team as trouble makers??????, I think not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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