Taxis flagging due to out-of town cabs
11:30am Friday 14th March 2008
Comments (43)
A FRUSTRATED taxi driver is demanding to know why cabs licensed in Berwick are still able to touting for trade in Darlington.
George Jenkinson said business for the town's cabbies was suffering from the influx of private hire taxis with plates from Berwick, where licence fees cost half as much.
He said: "There is a loophole in the law. There are about five new cars appearing with a Berwick-upon-Tweed licence each week and the problem has been going on for a year."
The cost to test and license a private-hire taxi and driver in Darlington for a 12-month period cost £529 last year, but only £258 in Berwick.
But the law states that as long as the taxi remains for private hire use only the licence is transferable anywhere in the country.
He said: "We have been told that there is a loophole in the law as drivers can get a much cheaper licence in Berwick.
"These cars are not DSA (Driving Standards Agency) tested and cars are not up to scratch.
What is taking Darlington Borough Council so long to act on this, our livings are at stake. They have taken away lots of our business."
Mr Jenkinson added: "We are not the only ones angry about this, it is effecting taxi drivers in Derwentside and Newcastle too.
"The issue is being sent to the High Court but it has been adjourned and adjourned."
A Darlington Borough Council spokesman said licensed Hackney carriages could collect private hire bookings anywhere in the country.
He added: "We have no authority over vehicles licensed by other councils but, if they do something illegal in Darlington, such as picking up unbooked fares, we can prosecute the driver.
"Newcastle City Council has been granted permission to judicially review Berwick Council for granting licenses to vehicles that are only being used outside of the Berwick district and we have written a letter of support for this action. We await the hearing."
In August last year Ace Cars, a local taxi firm, had its licence revoked by Darlington councillors who ruled that the firm was jeopardising public safety by licensing some of its taxis with Berwick-upon-Tweed Borough Council.
Your Say YourThe Northern Echo
Dave, Darlington says...
5:42pm Fri 14 Mar 08
paul, darlington says...
12:41am Sat 15 Mar 08
brian, darlington says...
9:50am Sat 15 Mar 08
Brendan, Darlington says...
2:16pm Sat 15 Mar 08
Jack, Darlington says...
11:16am Mon 17 Mar 08
harry, darlington says...
12:50pm Mon 17 Mar 08
these drivers obviously are from darlington and not berwick. berwick is a long way to come for a day.
and ace taxi use them all the time.
trailertrash, north east says...
12:59pm Wed 19 Mar 08
Garry, says...
2:28pm Wed 19 Mar 08
Dave, Darlington says...
2:50pm Wed 19 Mar 08
John, Darlington says...
5:33pm Thu 20 Mar 08
merryn gibson, darlo says...
10:19pm Wed 26 Mar 08
merryn gibson, darlo says...
9:12am Thu 27 Mar 08
Lizzi, darlington says...
3:24pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Not all Darlington Registered Taxis Drivers are against Berwick Drivers !! Mr. Jenkinson himself talks to Berwick Drivers !!Everyone is making a living leave Berwick lads alone !!
trailertrash, north east says...
8:25pm Thu 27 Mar 08
lizzi, Darlington says...
8:44pm Thu 27 Mar 08
Give the lads a break they are earning a living like everyone else !!
john, newcastle on tyne says...
6:04am Fri 28 Mar 08
firstly,Im a cab driver in Newcastle,where Im often asked why a particular company can do a 10 mile job for &14 when I carge &19/20.
Answer is I have to pay the full licence fee,test fee and badge fee.Im licensed in the local area,not 60 miles away,and I know my area. Fuel is 112.9 per litre,im not running on home made diesel or red diesel.as I tell my customers,If you pay peanuts,you get monkeys.
As for Berwick plates,yes they are cheap,BUT if a passenger flags one down in the street,the drivers insurance is invalid if he accept the job.
Mr Wilson told me that non of the drivers he licenses do anything illegal and would not accept a flag down. Unfortunately for Mr Wilson,the CRB people inform me that they have yet to do a check on an `angel`,there are so far very few `angels` licensed to drive cabs in Newcastle...other areas...maybe...who knows.
Finally,all I hear nowadays is we want cheap this,that and the other. Those who say we should work for less money,would they do that,if their boss reduced their wages for his own reason...I bet they would.
If your son or daughter gets into an uninsured cab,with a driver who should not be driving it and he or she is assaulted or worse (GOD FORBID) its me and my collegues who get the flak,not some idiot who just dissappears with no trace.MY insurance and reputation NOT YOURS.
As Im often refered to a `black cab rip off merchant` while some idiot is a good cabbie as he charged me £5 when the fare is about £9,as pocket money and hes back at work on monday for £500 a week.
Think about it!
merryn gibson, darlo says...
2:59pm Fri 28 Mar 08
trailertrash, north east says...
7:00pm Fri 28 Mar 08
kevin, darlington says...
7:19pm Mon 31 Mar 08
Dave wrote:i agree with you dave, there are some taxi drivers who should never have been given a licence, and there is a few who like me take pride in there driving, always indicating when required and observing what is going on to my left and right not wearing blinkers as most seem to do.i am always curtious to my passengers and converse in conversation not like those miserable(@*&**^& as one passenger referred to them. you never know dave you might get in my taxi one day and be pleasantly suprised.
Pity the poor cabbies;those knights of the road, what with their curteous and competent driving...they're always complaining about profits but most cabbies I know only declare a 16 hour week to the tax man...
j, j says...
9:17pm Mon 31 Mar 08
anon wrote:I just saw one of the cars today, that was Berwick registered.
I\\\'m a little confused if Ace had its licence revoked last year. Why are its taxis seen all over D\\\'ton and why is it advertising in one of the free papers that came through the door today? Or is being licensed by another town a loophole that allows it to do this?
Andyt, North Tyneside says...
8:28pm Tue 1 Apr 08
Finally, why does everyone presume that we are working as hackneys down here, we are highly visible with the logos on top signs, a lot easier to flimp a fare in a private hire with no sign!!
Chris T, Newcastle upon Tyne says...
4:37pm Wed 2 Apr 08
It's quite easy to spot a Berwick vehicle (I can't call them taxi's), - they usually have their plate in the back of the window stuck on with blu-tack, their "top sign" will be in the boot of the car so no-body knows where the vehicle is from, their badges will be deep inside their pockets and they won't have ANY taxi signs on the side of the vehicles either. What chance has the public got? Not a hope! Lansdowne taxis are the worst culprits. Most of their taxis are floating around the City Centre instead of outside their office or atleast in the vacinity. By the way - if you hadn't guessed....I'm a Newcastle Hackney (fully licensed) taxi driver. With a family to feed. Chris
Chris T, says...
7:41pm Wed 2 Apr 08
Andyt, North Tyneside says...
9:24pm Wed 2 Apr 08
Dont fool yourself, newcastle and n.tyneside councils are concerned about their loss in revenue, not about any other matter. North Tyneside are increasing vehicle test fees by £66 in the next month or so, what impact do you think that will have? It would be interesting to see how many extra taxis are on the road due to berwick, I myself also hold a tyneside badge, not new to the trade.
Have you thought of the wider implications should berwick lose? Lets see how many newcastle drivers will be proud of their win when they are told they can no longer work newcastle airport as it falls in castle morpeth area? They may think that as it is private land it will be fair game, initial enquiries suggest not!
On the other hand, should newcastle lose, when berwick council becomes northumberland county council on may 29th 2009, it will entitle all northumberland plate holders to apply for airport permits. Legitimate berwick drivers are not the enemy!!
Chris T, says...
3:01pm Thu 3 Apr 08
Tynedale drivers out there (percentage would be small), there are a huge amount of illegal taxis plying for hire on our streets day after day, week after week. You see the same vehicles working from the same areas night after night. You tell them to move on and they just move to another area of the City. There were 3 Lansdowne Berwick taxis parked outside the old Fire Station last night for over 1 hour. Were they on a booking?? I don't think so. They SHOULD have gone back to their base, but it's all to easy to park up in the City Centre and wait for a job to come to you. It's getting really bad now and I think if anyone not from Newcastle came to the area on a Saturday night out it would be 50/50 if they got into a Newcastle Hack or "another" taxi (be it an out of town taxi or a flimping private hire) - and they wouldn't know they are not insured if they decided to get into the wrong taxi.
David Patterson, Hartlepool says...
5:42pm Thu 3 Apr 08
Chris T, says...
9:07am Fri 4 Apr 08
Andyt, North Tyneside says...
1:38pm Fri 4 Apr 08
May I suggest if you do see the same cars acting suspiciously on a regular basis make a note of the time, reg numbers, plate numbers etc and contact dbw@berwick-upon-twe
ed.gov.uk or ring 01289 330044 (office hours). Believe me, they are extremely keen to catch the rogues and are regularly monitoring sites where people report suspected illegal behaviour. Lets be honest, its in everybodys interest if the bad drivers are caught, Berwick, Derwentside or your own enemy within! There are some offices which act in a less than professional manner and they are getting a bad name for genuine operators. The only reason I license with berwick is the financial saving, its not to cause civil unrest. The maths are simple, car and driver in berwick £259, North Tyneside (after April 08 rise) £420!
I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH, PLEASE REPORT THE ROGUES! TAKE AS MANY DETAILS AS POSSIBLE, REPORT TO DAVID OR CLAIRE AT BERWICK AND THEY WILL ACT! WITH THE PROPOSED LEGAL BATTLE THEY ARE KEEN TO SHOW THEY ARE ENFORCING THE CURRENT LAWS AS THEY STAND!
Andyt, North Tyneside says...
7:04am Sat 5 Apr 08
Before you call the Berwick drivers lack of interest in "duty of care" or even "they usually have their plate in the back of the window stuck on with blu-tack" please ensure that your own drivers now the law, your lot are certainly "not angels" either. Thanks for the quotes! By the way, the driver of the 08 Doblo will be reported to Newcastle City Council on Monday morning, along with photographic proof of the plate and witness statements of breaking the law regarding no smoking in the workplace. Like I said, lets get the rogues off the road, yours and ours!
trailertrash, north east says...
2:21am Sun 6 Apr 08
Chris T, says...
1:10pm Sun 6 Apr 08
trailertrash wrote:It's not as easy as that, as I'm sure you'll agree. Not every taxi vehicle that has a "taxi" top sign can be stopped LEGALLY. However, I do agree with you that Berwick vehicles are legal in Darlington as well as Newcastle and North/South Tyneside. What isn't legal is for many of them to pick up flag downs and rank up on official taxi ranks out of their boundaries. (like many ABC and Lawnsdowne private hire vehicles were last night). I don't have a problem at all if the Berwick plates are used correctly - if someone wants to work Blue Line taxi (for agruements sake) with a Berwick plate and maybe finds the locality test too difficult for Newcastle City Council, then thats fine....but do just take booked jobs only.
Look, the rules are simple...if you flag a taxi down in the street, make sure it has a taxi sign on the top and a meter on the dashboard. If you are not happy with the fare then insist on a receipt from the driver,and take a note of the plate no. on the back of the car.Take the receipt to the council. The taxi Licensing officers will investigate, and if necessary check the meter in the taxi. Don't forget that a fare can vary depending on the time of day or night, and the route taken,traffic congestion and dropping off at various places. Oh, and one final word..Berwick licensed taxis are LEGAL in Darlington.
As for Andyt comments - I applaud you...you must have been very quick thinking to grap your phone to take a picture of the guys smoking. I'm just unsure if it could be proved they "lit up" before or after they got in/out of the vehicle. I'm not saying it's right what has happened....just that if your photo is of them outside the taxi, you'll not have a leg to stand on. As for the plate - well as it was an 08 vehicle it would seem obvious that he must have purchased the vehicle very recently and will almost certainly have paperwork from the council which allows him to operate while he waits for his plate to be picked up. This happened to me last year, when I went from a 4 seater to a 7 seater - I needed to wait around a week for the plate details to be changed. If it was a competition to take photos of possible illegal activity, I would win hands down. Again, last night was a disgrace to the private hire trade. Blantant flimping happening in almost every street of the City Centre. But, as they all know its impossible to prove 100% that it is not a booked job as we, as Hackney drivers have no authority at all and can't inforce the law unlike Councils. Chris
Andyt, North Tyneside says...
9:06pm Sun 6 Apr 08
Lets not turn this into an us against them debate! I am sure that we all share the common desire to get rid of the idiots that are bringing the taxi trade into disrepute. Whatever the outcome of the Berwick review, lets try to rid our streets of the people who constantly flout the law and act illegally to make a quick buck.
Please, I ask that if you see a vehicle (which ever council) which you suspect to be acting illegally take details, ask your fellow hacks to do the same. Report these people. They maybe picking a member of your family up in an unlicensed, uninsured vehicle!!
Chris T, 544-717 says...
11:32am Mon 7 Apr 08
rday (on the streets of Newcastle) and for drivers to have access to his mobile phone. If any illegal activity is taking place in the City Centre we can therefore contact him direct and hopefully things could be sorted. I'm convinced every driver would gladly pay a little extra on the fees to stop this. Chris
Andyt, North Tyneside says...
3:18pm Mon 7 Apr 08
Chris T wrote:Berwick actually have two full time enforcement officers who work (mainly evenings, probably best time anyway) in the major cities where Berwick licensed cars are working. They drive a highly visible vehicle and attempt to flag down out of area taxis, particularly Gate and Quayside areas. They are actively trying to stop the rogues from there area and I can guarantee they will push for highest penalties possible. This will assist them in their case come the review and will aid to reassure members of the public, and hopefully legal taxis that they are carrying out enforcement duties.
Fair comment - The sooner the flimpers are caught the better for the trade and all of us. I intend to photograph taxis with the wrong top signs/plates not secure/no door crests etc this week and make a formal complaint to Newcastle City Council (and possibly Berwick). I will be asking if it's possible for drivers to pay maybe £40/£50 more per year on top of the existing fees to pay for a part time enforcement officer who will be available EVERY Thursday/Friday/Satu rday (on the streets of Newcastle) and for drivers to have access to his mobile phone. If any illegal activity is taking place in the City Centre we can therefore contact him direct and hopefully things could be sorted. I'm convinced every driver would gladly pay a little extra on the fees to stop this. Chris
If you contact David or Helen at berwick, I am sure they will be interested in a system where drivers can be reported on a hotline, definitely worth a try. Probably pointless approaching your council as they have no legal power to stop a berwick vehicle unless accompanied by a police officer and they are usually busy enough on a weekend!
Try emailing David dbw@berwick-upon-twe
ed.gov.uk or ring 01289 330044 and suggest the idea. I think you may be surprised at how happy they will be to cooperate, if ideas are put to them in a reasoned and calm manner (not another pointless blockcade of Berwick, no - one responds to threats!) they will certainly discuss some ideas and hopefully be able to come to a solution that satisfys all concerned!
Angry Of Newcastle, Newcastle says...
6:13pm Mon 7 Apr 08
Firstly I would like to challenge Andyt on the number of Berwick Hacks working at his office (Blue Line), you say there are only 8 out of 200 working there well I beg to disagree on that point.
I have just driven through Wallsend today & spotted all 8 of them then, but I guess as its Monday & the bit is due that all of the cars including the Berwick ones have to come into Wallsend, had I the time it would have been interesting to sit on Laurel street & watch exactly how many there are!!!
I would guess that the figure is nearer the 25 to 30 mark after seeing plenty of them (all different) in Newcastle on Saturday night, but of course all of these would have been on legitimate bookings as we all know.
This problem is not going to go away until the councils get out there on a Friday & Saturday night & do the job there supposed to be doing.
Whilst I agree with Chris T in his comments about another enforcement officer I fear the vast majority of drivers would not be prepared to pay any extra, the attitude of let somebody else sort it springs to mind, & after the protest to Berwick last week proves my point (poor turn out)
Perhaps Andyt would be interested in the job as he seems to have a vast knowledge of the licensing laws in both his own area (Berwick) & others, what do you say then Mr T, fancy giving up the day job as David Baileys apprentice (photographer in case you did not know) & seeing if you can sort the mess out as your talents are clearly wasted in the taxi trade!!!.
I will myself from today be keeping a close eye on the amount of flimping going on & will be taking note of which cars are doing it & whether or not they are indeed Berwick or another licensing authority along with checking to see if they are displaying the correct roof signs (another issue altogether) & will be passing the information on to the relevant councils.
If we all work together on this we just might eradicate the problem from our streets
R, south shields says...
7:22pm Mon 7 Apr 08
Andyt, North Tyneside says...
11:59am Tue 8 Apr 08
Angry Of Newcastle wrote:Reference your above comments, I stressed in my earlier email, I DON'T WORK FOR BLUE LINE!!! Also, the reason I know parts of the law is to protect my own interests. At the office I work 95% of the drivers have sat (and all others are encouraged to sit) the BTEC Carrying Passengers for Hire and Reward qualification. This covers taxi law and licensing regulations, maybe this would be something that may interest others and allow them to speak with confidence. If you are going to make it personal, surely what I have stated beforehand is common knowledge, maybe not! Also your comment regarding a Newcastle Hack blatantly breaking the law, it was also caught on cctv so any sarcastic remark is surely petty and misplaced!
After reading a lot of peoples comments on here I thought it about time I had my say. Firstly I would like to challenge Andyt on the number of Berwick Hacks working at his office (Blue Line), you say there are only 8 out of 200 working there well I beg to disagree on that point. I have just driven through Wallsend today & spotted all 8 of them then, but I guess as its Monday & the bit is due that all of the cars including the Berwick ones have to come into Wallsend, had I the time it would have been interesting to sit on Laurel street & watch exactly how many there are!!! I would guess that the figure is nearer the 25 to 30 mark after seeing plenty of them (all different) in Newcastle on Saturday night, but of course all of these would have been on legitimate bookings as we all know. This problem is not going to go away until the councils get out there on a Friday & Saturday night & do the job there supposed to be doing. Whilst I agree with Chris T in his comments about another enforcement officer I fear the vast majority of drivers would not be prepared to pay any extra, the attitude of let somebody else sort it springs to mind, & after the protest to Berwick last week proves my point (poor turn out) Perhaps Andyt would be interested in the job as he seems to have a vast knowledge of the licensing laws in both his own area (Berwick) & others, what do you say then Mr T, fancy giving up the day job as David Baileys apprentice (photographer in case you did not know) & seeing if you can sort the mess out as your talents are clearly wasted in the taxi trade!!!. I will myself from today be keeping a close eye on the amount of flimping going on & will be taking note of which cars are doing it & whether or not they are indeed Berwick or another licensing authority along with checking to see if they are displaying the correct roof signs (another issue altogether) & will be passing the information on to the relevant councils. If we all work together on this we just might eradicate the problem from our streets
I will also be keeping a close eye on taxis, ours, yours and others. ChrisT has already offered a suggestion how to clamp down, lets hear more, not just pointless protests and aggressive
LIKE YOU SAID IF WE ALL WORK TOGETHER ON THIS IT CAN BE SORTED BUT IT TAKES COOPERATION FROM ALL PARTIES, NOT JUST YOU AGAINST THE WORLD WE ALL HAVE A PART TO PLAY!
geoff armstrong, south shields says...
10:56am Mon 14 Apr 08
grant miller, newcastle says...
12:59pm Wed 23 Apr 08
plate taxis are on the take... i have worked newcastle and area for two years with berwick plate i take pride in myself and in the car i drive which i would like to point out is only 2 years old and in better con that most if not all newcastle taxis .I only got a berwick plate to save money
fat man, newcastle says...
12:22pm Fri 2 May 08
merryn gibson wrote:taxi drivers are self employed so when you are
at the end of the day if you get into a berwick taxi or dbc taxi, you are charged the same. so the company is saving money but not passing the savings onto us. another thing is that no matter how much the lisence costs they will make the money back up.
charged £5 that money goes to the driver.i drove taxis (private hire)for 9 years,when i first started i could work a six hour shift and
take £120 now i make that in three shifts.my
badge is due this month but its not worth renewing it so im going on the dole.newcastle city council GREEDY @#/?ERS
john dodds (Duke), says...
6:20am Sun 25 May 08
at they mean is that money comes before public safety.
At a recent committee meeting to discuss plate issue,our `esteemed` chairwoman actually stated and I quote,`The City Council has a duty of care to the customer,BUT no duty of care to the drivers`.
Funny way of showing how they care about safety of passengers,allowing a situation to arrise where passengers get into a taxi that may well be uninsured due to illegally plying for hire,with a driver who may not be insured to drive the vehicle,or be fit and proper to do the job and the vehicle may not be road worthy.
I extend my sympathy to George and the rest of the Darlo lads,your certainly not alone in this mess....up here in Newcastle we intend to take some form of action to let the `muppets` on our council know they have not heard the last of it by a long way.
Maybe the Darlo lads could copy us and make their feelings known.....if we can help in any way ...get in touch.
Ill post a note to all and let you know how things go.....we have a meeting for the trade to decide how to proceed on wednesday night,7pm at the Newcastle Labour club on Leazes Pk Rd,just off Percy Street in the city centre,if anyone wants to come...wed 28 may @ 7pm....maybe see you there.
In the meantime...good luck...John
cabman, hull says...
12:32am Sat 2 Aug 08
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anon, D'ton says...
4:38pm Fri 14 Mar 08