Teenagers win sentence cut, despite degrading attack on disabled Shildon woman

The Northern Echo: COURT CASE: Josh Stobbs, left, and Daman Roberts COURT CASE: Josh Stobbs, left, and Daman Roberts

TWO teenagers who subjected a disabled woman to a degrading knifepoint attack in her home have had their sentences cut.

Josh Stobbs and Daman Roberts imprisoned their victim in her home in Shildon, County Durham, for six hours.

She was tied up and made to beg for her life while being threatened with a machete and a kitchen knife.

Stobbs, of West Chilton Terrace, Chilton, and Roberts, of Hullock Road, Newton Aycliffe, both 18, were given eight-year detention orders by Durham Crown Court last year.

Roberts admitted false imprisonment, criminal damage and theft, and Stobbs admitted false imprisonment, making threats to kill and criminal damage.

However, they appealed their sentences, which were yesterday cut to six-and-a-half years by the Appeal Court, in London.

The teenagers had been with three girls who called at the woman’s home in the early hours of May 28, last year, after she had gone to bed.

The victim, who had learning difficulties and physical disabilities, answered the door to the girls, who she knew, but Stobbs and Roberts followed them in the house.

They damaged the house, leaving the woman distressed, and refused to leave when she asked them to.

She was then threatened with a kitchen knife and a “machete-like knife”, made to go down on all fours on the floor, while Stobbs told her he was going to cut her toes and fingers off, and was then tied to a chair.

The pair put knives to her eyeballs and throat, repeatedly threatening to stab her, while subjecting her to humiliating verbal abuse.

The scenes were filmed on a mobile phone by Stobbs, and appeal judge Lord Justice Hooper yesterday said that it showed the pair had enjoyed what they were doing.

They eventually left, having threatened to come back and kill their victim if she reported them. Stobbs later gave himself up to the police, having shown the footage to his mother.

Lord Justice Hooper said: “Their actions were intended to humiliate, demean and distress and those efforts were successful. They were jointly responsible and their behaviour was equally appalling.”

However, he said: “Taking into account their guilty pleas and youth, we think the sentences should be reduced from eight years to six-and-ahalf years.”

Comments (33)

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8:14am Tue 19 Jun 12

stevegg says...

Disgraceful. Another example of the rights of the criminal being put above those of the victim. Our justice system is a joke and defended by judges who dont live in the real world!
Disgraceful. Another example of the rights of the criminal being put above those of the victim. Our justice system is a joke and defended by judges who dont live in the real world! stevegg

8:44am Tue 19 Jun 12

MSG says...

Disgrace, these two should have been birched in public, they are total scum!
Disgrace, these two should have been birched in public, they are total scum! MSG

8:47am Tue 19 Jun 12

GeordieB says...

It's about time there were legitimate ways to take action against judges who sentence against the public good.
It's about time there were legitimate ways to take action against judges who sentence against the public good. GeordieB

8:49am Tue 19 Jun 12

omg what says...

Appeal court judges are too far removed to fully understand the pain and sufering people like these cause, the scrotey little criminals are given the opportunity to appear at the court of appeal whereas the victims dont even know about it until they read about it a few days later.
Of course the sentence is going to be reduced as they only hear one side of the case.
Justice my a@se
Appeal court judges are too far removed to fully understand the pain and sufering people like these cause, the scrotey little criminals are given the opportunity to appear at the court of appeal whereas the victims dont even know about it until they read about it a few days later. Of course the sentence is going to be reduced as they only hear one side of the case. Justice my a@se omg what

9:36am Tue 19 Jun 12

drussy says...

What a complete farce British justice is a complete joke
What a complete farce British justice is a complete joke drussy

9:38am Tue 19 Jun 12

freelance says...

Disgraceful - Punishment and the use of the word is avoided - it is the greatest deterent - if flogging was done together with long sentences these scum would be erradicated.
Deterents work - eg having nuclear weapons in east and west since the 50's has averted a 3rd WW
Disgraceful - Punishment and the use of the word is avoided - it is the greatest deterent - if flogging was done together with long sentences these scum would be erradicated. Deterents work - eg having nuclear weapons in east and west since the 50's has averted a 3rd WW freelance

9:42am Tue 19 Jun 12

Edmondsley says...

Why reduce the sentence for a plea of guilty to something he admitted doing, to his mother. He was guilty. Why reward that?
Why reduce the sentence for a plea of guilty to something he admitted doing, to his mother. He was guilty. Why reward that? Edmondsley

10:10am Tue 19 Jun 12

entitled opinion says...

Disgraceful. 8 years is not enough to start with never mind reducing it. I wonder if something like this happened to the appeal judge or one of his family members he would thing this sentence is good enough. They shouldn't get rewarded for putting in a guilty plea. They also shouldn't get a reduced sentence because they are youths. That has nothing to do with anything. They are old enough to subject that poor women to hell for 6 hours so they should be old enough to go to prison for any lenght of time.
Disgraceful. 8 years is not enough to start with never mind reducing it. I wonder if something like this happened to the appeal judge or one of his family members he would thing this sentence is good enough. They shouldn't get rewarded for putting in a guilty plea. They also shouldn't get a reduced sentence because they are youths. That has nothing to do with anything. They are old enough to subject that poor women to hell for 6 hours so they should be old enough to go to prison for any lenght of time. entitled opinion

11:48am Tue 19 Jun 12

Insel_Affen says...

But they fronted up to what they had done? Do we not encourage children to do just this? It's still 6½ years, through their vulnerable later teenage years and they are not responsible adults until 18. I wonder what this sentence will do to them? They should be afforded the best care in prison with access to learning programs to make them better citizens. Flogging a man only teaches them one thing, how to turn their backs. Corporal punishment never stopped children being badly behaved.

To say that nuclear weapons worked a deterrent is preposterous, it only assure the world that we did not achieve MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). They may have stopped a nuclear war, but not any other wars. These judges are very experiences enforces of the law who distribute right and fair sentences, if they feel there is an injustice, they act accordingly.
But they fronted up to what they had done? Do we not encourage children to do just this? It's still 6½ years, through their vulnerable later teenage years and they are not responsible adults until 18. I wonder what this sentence will do to them? They should be afforded the best care in prison with access to learning programs to make them better citizens. Flogging a man only teaches them one thing, how to turn their backs. Corporal punishment never stopped children being badly behaved. To say that nuclear weapons worked a deterrent is preposterous, it only assure the world that we did not achieve MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). They may have stopped a nuclear war, but not any other wars. These judges are very experiences enforces of the law who distribute right and fair sentences, if they feel there is an injustice, they act accordingly. Insel_Affen

12:12pm Tue 19 Jun 12

Daza says...

PURE SCUM!

No doubt, they will be out in 2!
PURE SCUM! No doubt, they will be out in 2! Daza

12:13pm Tue 19 Jun 12

CTRILEY says...

Insel_Affen wrote:
But they fronted up to what they had done? Do we not encourage children to do just this? It's still 6½ years, through their vulnerable later teenage years and they are not responsible adults until 18. I wonder what this sentence will do to them? They should be afforded the best care in prison with access to learning programs to make them better citizens. Flogging a man only teaches them one thing, how to turn their backs. Corporal punishment never stopped children being badly behaved. To say that nuclear weapons worked a deterrent is preposterous, it only assure the world that we did not achieve MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). They may have stopped a nuclear war, but not any other wars. These judges are very experiences enforces of the law who distribute right and fair sentences, if they feel there is an injustice, they act accordingly.
At theschool I attened they removed corporal punishment because they school feared it would be sued. As a result bullying rocketed and those concerned left school and formed a gang know as the Spenny New Breed, who terrorised the area for several years until they were sent to prison for various crimes including ABH, GBH and manslaughter.

After they came out prison the majority become descent people because at prison they got the discipline and deterents they were denied at school. But because of the belief that corporal punishment didn't deter, breeched their human rights it was removed from all schools.

Once that happened pupils kept crossding the line until they realised that the teachers were powerless to do anything. Bullying has risen to the point were the victims commit suicide, teachers are being physically and sexually abused in class because those doing known that the authorities are powerless to do anything. Those who are full of sh!t preach that they bullies are victims and instead of given them punishment instead gave them mountain bikes and holidays, which teached them that bad behaviour will be rewarded.

These scumbags leave school and become the very people who attacked the old woman.
[quote][p][bold]Insel_Affen[/bold] wrote: But they fronted up to what they had done? Do we not encourage children to do just this? It's still 6½ years, through their vulnerable later teenage years and they are not responsible adults until 18. I wonder what this sentence will do to them? They should be afforded the best care in prison with access to learning programs to make them better citizens. Flogging a man only teaches them one thing, how to turn their backs. Corporal punishment never stopped children being badly behaved. To say that nuclear weapons worked a deterrent is preposterous, it only assure the world that we did not achieve MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). They may have stopped a nuclear war, but not any other wars. These judges are very experiences enforces of the law who distribute right and fair sentences, if they feel there is an injustice, they act accordingly.[/p][/quote]At theschool I attened they removed corporal punishment because they school feared it would be sued. As a result bullying rocketed and those concerned left school and formed a gang know as the Spenny New Breed, who terrorised the area for several years until they were sent to prison for various crimes including ABH, GBH and manslaughter. After they came out prison the majority become descent people because at prison they got the discipline and deterents they were denied at school. But because of the belief that corporal punishment didn't deter, breeched their human rights it was removed from all schools. Once that happened pupils kept crossding the line until they realised that the teachers were powerless to do anything. Bullying has risen to the point were the victims commit suicide, teachers are being physically and sexually abused in class because those doing known that the authorities are powerless to do anything. Those who are full of sh!t preach that they bullies are victims and instead of given them punishment instead gave them mountain bikes and holidays, which teached them that bad behaviour will be rewarded. These scumbags leave school and become the very people who attacked the old woman. CTRILEY

12:38pm Tue 19 Jun 12

Insel_Affen says...

So there were no gangs before corporal punishment was abolished?? I am sure many of these former members did become delightful members of society, but probably because they grew up and realised their mistakes (just as these boys have). Ceasing corporal punishment did not spawn a massive rise in classroom violence, it just showed that there are some teachers who are unable to control a class without physical punishment, 'Do as I say or I'll clout you!' What a fine example to children. There are many high quality teachers out there who did not need and still do not need the threat of physically abusing children through caning them.

Those who can do, those who can't, teach.

What about the cause of the problem? Do the children have rules imposed at home and therefore adhere to the ones for society? Perhaps the bullies are victims of (feckless) parenting of those who went to school and have now become the leaders of today, realising that violence solves nothing? Bullies were always around (outside school too) and children even topped themselves back in the ‘good old days’.
So there were no gangs before corporal punishment was abolished?? I am sure many of these former members did become delightful members of society, but probably because they grew up and realised their mistakes (just as these boys have). Ceasing corporal punishment did not spawn a massive rise in classroom violence, it just showed that there are some teachers who are unable to control a class without physical punishment, 'Do as I say or I'll clout you!' What a fine example to children. There are many high quality teachers out there who did not need and still do not need the threat of physically abusing children through caning them. Those who can do, those who can't, teach. What about the cause of the problem? Do the children have rules imposed at home and therefore adhere to the ones for society? Perhaps the bullies are victims of (feckless) parenting of those who went to school and have now become the leaders of today, realising that violence solves nothing? Bullies were always around (outside school too) and children even topped themselves back in the ‘good old days’. Insel_Affen

2:58pm Tue 19 Jun 12

Shildon Casual says...

HANGING IS TOO GOOD FOR SCUM LIKE THIS !!!
HANGING IS TOO GOOD FOR SCUM LIKE THIS !!! Shildon Casual

3:03pm Tue 19 Jun 12

dave simon says...

too right it is, a good kick up the **** is what they want
too right it is, a good kick up the **** is what they want dave simon

3:11pm Tue 19 Jun 12

Chloe 123 says...

I am disgusted to read that these ADULTS have had their sentences reduced. Anyone who can subject a disabled person to such an horrific experience of torture and verbal abuse needs psychiatric help! It worries me that they will be back in society in no time only to do something similar to another victim. Human decency and morals begin at home and I would be ashamed if I were these adults parents! Corporal punishment did work but it's never coming back as it was a great deterrent but also open to abuse. Lets hope they at least serve their full reduced sentence, get some help and never do this again! Their pictures in the newspaper should make them realize that everyone will recognize them as scum from now on and what goes around comes around! Lets hope they can turn their lives around. My heart goes out to the victim.
I am disgusted to read that these ADULTS have had their sentences reduced. Anyone who can subject a disabled person to such an horrific experience of torture and verbal abuse needs psychiatric help! It worries me that they will be back in society in no time only to do something similar to another victim. Human decency and morals begin at home and I would be ashamed if I were these adults parents! Corporal punishment did work but it's never coming back as it was a great deterrent but also open to abuse. Lets hope they at least serve their full reduced sentence, get some help and never do this again! Their pictures in the newspaper should make them realize that everyone will recognize them as scum from now on and what goes around comes around! Lets hope they can turn their lives around. My heart goes out to the victim. Chloe 123

3:11pm Tue 19 Jun 12

gavshaw62 says...

scumbags most probably didn't go to school but what makes people like these its every day you pick a paper up watch the news or check teletext and its a thing that goes on day after day in this country rape murder sexual assaults on minors and oap's how can we stop it. the people in power so called mps don't care and then the people who pass down sentances judges are undermined by appeal courts. set down sentances for certain crimes should be adopted in this country. e.g someone caught with a knife 5years 10 years if they use it and life with no parole if they kill someone. lets get tough before its to late for the sake of our kids and grandkids
scumbags most probably didn't go to school but what makes people like these its every day you pick a paper up watch the news or check teletext and its a thing that goes on day after day in this country rape murder sexual assaults on minors and oap's how can we stop it. the people in power so called mps don't care and then the people who pass down sentances judges are undermined by appeal courts. set down sentances for certain crimes should be adopted in this country. e.g someone caught with a knife 5years 10 years if they use it and life with no parole if they kill someone. lets get tough before its to late for the sake of our kids and grandkids gavshaw62

4:32pm Tue 19 Jun 12

Roland1 says...

Insel_Affen wrote:
So there were no gangs before corporal punishment was abolished?? I am sure many of these former members did become delightful members of society, but probably because they grew up and realised their mistakes (just as these boys have). Ceasing corporal punishment did not spawn a massive rise in classroom violence, it just showed that there are some teachers who are unable to control a class without physical punishment, 'Do as I say or I'll clout you!' What a fine example to children. There are many high quality teachers out there who did not need and still do not need the threat of physically abusing children through caning them.

Those who can do, those who can't, teach.

What about the cause of the problem? Do the children have rules imposed at home and therefore adhere to the ones for society? Perhaps the bullies are victims of (feckless) parenting of those who went to school and have now become the leaders of today, realising that violence solves nothing? Bullies were always around (outside school too) and children even topped themselves back in the ‘good old days’.
Sounds like your in the social work field to me...........
[quote][p][bold]Insel_Affen[/bold] wrote: So there were no gangs before corporal punishment was abolished?? I am sure many of these former members did become delightful members of society, but probably because they grew up and realised their mistakes (just as these boys have). Ceasing corporal punishment did not spawn a massive rise in classroom violence, it just showed that there are some teachers who are unable to control a class without physical punishment, 'Do as I say or I'll clout you!' What a fine example to children. There are many high quality teachers out there who did not need and still do not need the threat of physically abusing children through caning them. Those who can do, those who can't, teach. What about the cause of the problem? Do the children have rules imposed at home and therefore adhere to the ones for society? Perhaps the bullies are victims of (feckless) parenting of those who went to school and have now become the leaders of today, realising that violence solves nothing? Bullies were always around (outside school too) and children even topped themselves back in the ‘good old days’.[/p][/quote]Sounds like your in the social work field to me........... Roland1

4:33pm Tue 19 Jun 12

the-big-yin says...

gavshaw62 wrote:
scumbags most probably didn't go to school but what makes people like these its every day you pick a paper up watch the news or check teletext and its a thing that goes on day after day in this country rape murder sexual assaults on minors and oap's how can we stop it. the people in power so called mps don't care and then the people who pass down sentances judges are undermined by appeal courts. set down sentances for certain crimes should be adopted in this country. e.g someone caught with a knife 5years 10 years if they use it and life with no parole if they kill someone. lets get tough before its to late for the sake of our kids and grandkids
no doubt their rehabilitation will work while in jail...NOT!!!!!
when they get out i can guarantee someone will want to do to them what they did to that poor defenceless person.....what happened to the old saying an eye for an eye?.....
scum scum scum......but thats society these days ...
[quote][p][bold]gavshaw62[/bold] wrote: scumbags most probably didn't go to school but what makes people like these its every day you pick a paper up watch the news or check teletext and its a thing that goes on day after day in this country rape murder sexual assaults on minors and oap's how can we stop it. the people in power so called mps don't care and then the people who pass down sentances judges are undermined by appeal courts. set down sentances for certain crimes should be adopted in this country. e.g someone caught with a knife 5years 10 years if they use it and life with no parole if they kill someone. lets get tough before its to late for the sake of our kids and grandkids[/p][/quote]no doubt their rehabilitation will work while in jail...NOT!!!!! when they get out i can guarantee someone will want to do to them what they did to that poor defenceless person.....what happened to the old saying an eye for an eye?..... scum scum scum......but thats society these days ... the-big-yin

6:21pm Tue 19 Jun 12

oliviaden6 says...

Cut the sentence it should have been doubled?
Cut the sentence it should have been doubled? oliviaden6

7:59pm Tue 19 Jun 12

Idontknowaboutyoubut says...

Totally agree with all the commenters on this thread.Except one. Can anybody guess who that is?Yes,thats right!
The issue is clear.The actions of these two swearwords was purely sadistic,way beyond normal behaviour,the mark of true psychopathy. No doubt,with the sentence reduction,they will be back on the streets in three years,possibly less.
When they get out,having learned that the punishment truly does not fit the crime,they will surely move up a gear in the criminality stakes. I dont think we have seen the last of these two.
Totally agree with all the commenters on this thread.Except one. Can anybody guess who that is?Yes,thats right! The issue is clear.The actions of these two swearwords was purely sadistic,way beyond normal behaviour,the mark of true psychopathy. No doubt,with the sentence reduction,they will be back on the streets in three years,possibly less. When they get out,having learned that the punishment truly does not fit the crime,they will surely move up a gear in the criminality stakes. I dont think we have seen the last of these two. Idontknowaboutyoubut

8:15pm Tue 19 Jun 12

blaze467 says...

Man is not born wicked; he becomes so, as he becomes sick. Voltaire

Shame these two sick **** will be back sooner than later.
Man is not born wicked; he becomes so, as he becomes sick. Voltaire Shame these two sick **** will be back sooner than later. blaze467

8:26pm Tue 19 Jun 12

CTRILEY says...

Insel_Affen wrote:
So there were no gangs before corporal punishment was abolished?? I am sure many of these former members did become delightful members of society, but probably because they grew up and realised their mistakes (just as these boys have). Ceasing corporal punishment did not spawn a massive rise in classroom violence, it just showed that there are some teachers who are unable to control a class without physical punishment, 'Do as I say or I'll clout you!' What a fine example to children. There are many high quality teachers out there who did not need and still do not need the threat of physically abusing children through caning them. Those who can do, those who can't, teach. What about the cause of the problem? Do the children have rules imposed at home and therefore adhere to the ones for society? Perhaps the bullies are victims of (feckless) parenting of those who went to school and have now become the leaders of today, realising that violence solves nothing? Bullies were always around (outside school too) and children even topped themselves back in the ‘good old days’.
I was in a gang and all we ever did was play football, ride bikes, etc., 32 of us didn;t gang up on 4 soliders on leave pin one down on the floor and drop a flag stone on his head. We didn't start massive fights which closed parts of Durham City and forced Durham to have the first Police force in Britain to have a dept. simply to deal with gang violence. We didn't beat up people on buses or ram a broken pint glass into a man face becuase we felt like it. We didn't steal a car and use it kill a man waiting at a bus stop to go hospital to see his wife who had just given birth, then go into the Top Hat night club and brag about it.

Whilst within your defence of these scumbags there isn't one single word or ounce of concern for their victims. One of whom was me!
[quote][p][bold]Insel_Affen[/bold] wrote: So there were no gangs before corporal punishment was abolished?? I am sure many of these former members did become delightful members of society, but probably because they grew up and realised their mistakes (just as these boys have). Ceasing corporal punishment did not spawn a massive rise in classroom violence, it just showed that there are some teachers who are unable to control a class without physical punishment, 'Do as I say or I'll clout you!' What a fine example to children. There are many high quality teachers out there who did not need and still do not need the threat of physically abusing children through caning them. Those who can do, those who can't, teach. What about the cause of the problem? Do the children have rules imposed at home and therefore adhere to the ones for society? Perhaps the bullies are victims of (feckless) parenting of those who went to school and have now become the leaders of today, realising that violence solves nothing? Bullies were always around (outside school too) and children even topped themselves back in the ‘good old days’.[/p][/quote]I was in a gang and all we ever did was play football, ride bikes, etc., 32 of us didn;t gang up on 4 soliders on leave pin one down on the floor and drop a flag stone on his head. We didn't start massive fights which closed parts of Durham City and forced Durham to have the first Police force in Britain to have a dept. simply to deal with gang violence. We didn't beat up people on buses or ram a broken pint glass into a man face becuase we felt like it. We didn't steal a car and use it kill a man waiting at a bus stop to go hospital to see his wife who had just given birth, then go into the Top Hat night club and brag about it. Whilst within your defence of these scumbags there isn't one single word or ounce of concern for their victims. One of whom was me! CTRILEY

9:02pm Tue 19 Jun 12

Insel_Affen says...

So what is being said is that there was no violence in the past? You could all leave your front doors open and no one ever got beaten up- two names Hindley and Brady.

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi. He also said, "I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent." (We can all do quotes).

If you agree that there is something wrong (mentally) with these kids, then they should receive counselling to help them get better, otherwise we will release two psychopaths back on the streets. Also who did these guys learn their values from? Who showed them an example? It was our generation (assuming most people on this thread are 35+).
So what is being said is that there was no violence in the past? You could all leave your front doors open and no one ever got beaten up- two names Hindley and Brady. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi. He also said, "I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent." (We can all do quotes). If you agree that there is something wrong (mentally) with these kids, then they should receive counselling to help them get better, otherwise we will release two psychopaths back on the streets. Also who did these guys learn their values from? Who showed them an example? It was our generation (assuming most people on this thread are 35+). Insel_Affen

9:08pm Tue 19 Jun 12

Insel_Affen says...

Roland1 wrote:
Insel_Affen wrote: So there were no gangs before corporal punishment was abolished?? I am sure many of these former members did become delightful members of society, but probably because they grew up and realised their mistakes (just as these boys have). Ceasing corporal punishment did not spawn a massive rise in classroom violence, it just showed that there are some teachers who are unable to control a class without physical punishment, 'Do as I say or I'll clout you!' What a fine example to children. There are many high quality teachers out there who did not need and still do not need the threat of physically abusing children through caning them. Those who can do, those who can't, teach. What about the cause of the problem? Do the children have rules imposed at home and therefore adhere to the ones for society? Perhaps the bullies are victims of (feckless) parenting of those who went to school and have now become the leaders of today, realising that violence solves nothing? Bullies were always around (outside school too) and children even topped themselves back in the ‘good old days’.
Sounds like your in the social work field to me...........
Sorry Roland, I am not and never have been in the social work field, nothing could be farther from it. I am merely debating a different point of view.
[quote][p][bold]Roland1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Insel_Affen[/bold] wrote: So there were no gangs before corporal punishment was abolished?? I am sure many of these former members did become delightful members of society, but probably because they grew up and realised their mistakes (just as these boys have). Ceasing corporal punishment did not spawn a massive rise in classroom violence, it just showed that there are some teachers who are unable to control a class without physical punishment, 'Do as I say or I'll clout you!' What a fine example to children. There are many high quality teachers out there who did not need and still do not need the threat of physically abusing children through caning them. Those who can do, those who can't, teach. What about the cause of the problem? Do the children have rules imposed at home and therefore adhere to the ones for society? Perhaps the bullies are victims of (feckless) parenting of those who went to school and have now become the leaders of today, realising that violence solves nothing? Bullies were always around (outside school too) and children even topped themselves back in the ‘good old days’.[/p][/quote]Sounds like your in the social work field to me...........[/p][/quote]Sorry Roland, I am not and never have been in the social work field, nothing could be farther from it. I am merely debating a different point of view. Insel_Affen

9:40pm Tue 19 Jun 12

CTRILEY says...

"Sorry Roland, I am not and never have been in the social work field, nothing could be farther from it. I am merely debating a different point of view."

What is also true is that a person's point of view on certain matters is ultimately shaped by their experiences, knowledge of the people and events concerned. At junior school they rewarded hard work and good behaviour whilst punishing the bad. This taught us that doing the right thing brought rewards, doing wrong carried consequences. We also had a head teacher who at every assembly read out a moral tale from esop fables.

At Comp. coporal punishment was removed so children learnt that their actions carried no consequences and they took those values with them when they left school. Later on some schools would give pupils mountain bikes and holidays if they behaviour was bad, whilst good kids got nothing. The lesson that teaches is that there's no reason to act good, but acting badly carries no negative consequences only rewards. Since corporal punishment ended the prison population has grown and an estimated 75% of prison imates were all former school bullies.
"Sorry Roland, I am not and never have been in the social work field, nothing could be farther from it. I am merely debating a different point of view." What is also true is that a person's point of view on certain matters is ultimately shaped by their experiences, knowledge of the people and events concerned. At junior school they rewarded hard work and good behaviour whilst punishing the bad. This taught us that doing the right thing brought rewards, doing wrong carried consequences. We also had a head teacher who at every assembly read out a moral tale from esop fables. At Comp. coporal punishment was removed so children learnt that their actions carried no consequences and they took those values with them when they left school. Later on some schools would give pupils mountain bikes and holidays if they behaviour was bad, whilst good kids got nothing. The lesson that teaches is that there's no reason to act good, but acting badly carries no negative consequences only rewards. Since corporal punishment ended the prison population has grown and an estimated 75% of prison imates were all former school bullies. CTRILEY

11:09pm Tue 19 Jun 12

Insel_Affen says...

CTR you are correct, good behaviour at school was rewarded and punishment was meted out for bad behaviour at your junior school. Did you have caning at junior school, and therefore need it as a deterrent? Do teachers still read out moral stories? Maybe the education system has let these people down and that started them off on the moral decline?

After caning was stopped in secondary schools bad behaviour was still punished, just not with caning. Good behaviour in schools is still rewarded by good grades and hopefully better jobs. I have never heard of schools giving out mountain bike holidays for bad behaviour, maybe they were team building exercises/camps to build low self esteem in badly behaved (or abused) children. Your logic is flawed as it could be extended to say don’t bother working for a living as you get plenty of money on the dole. I am not sure where you get your stats from on the majority of the prison population being former bullies; do you know what percentage of prisoners were bullies before corporal punishment was stopped? I am sure that there are many people out there who are ashamed at their behaviour at certain times at school and could even consider themselves to have bullied someone at some point.
CTR you are correct, good behaviour at school was rewarded and punishment was meted out for bad behaviour at your junior school. Did you have caning at junior school, and therefore need it as a deterrent? Do teachers still read out moral stories? Maybe the education system has let these people down and that started them off on the moral decline? After caning was stopped in secondary schools bad behaviour was still punished, just not with caning. Good behaviour in schools is still rewarded by good grades and hopefully better jobs. I have never heard of schools giving out mountain bike holidays for bad behaviour, maybe they were team building exercises/camps to build low self esteem in badly behaved (or abused) children. Your logic is flawed as it could be extended to say don’t bother working for a living as you get plenty of money on the dole. I am not sure where you get your stats from on the majority of the prison population being former bullies; do you know what percentage of prisoners were bullies before corporal punishment was stopped? I am sure that there are many people out there who are ashamed at their behaviour at certain times at school and could even consider themselves to have bullied someone at some point. Insel_Affen

11:10pm Tue 19 Jun 12

Longbowman666 says...

'Vulnerable teenage years' - And at what age do you learn right from wrong, good from bad, correct action and incorrect action? These two were old enough by far to have had those lessons and to have heeded them. What they did was sadsitic and cruel beyond measure, and they should rightly be punished for it.

Some have harked back to the past, and yes, there have always been killers, rapists, poisoners etc - the most infamous being Jack the Ripper of course. But that does not change the fact that these two knew what they were doing was wrong, yet they still did it, much as those others in the past did. But now we are supposed to 'understand' them, and ensure that they get a good grounding for when they come out etc. Perhaps a better, and far more expedient option is to do what works for all bullies, and do to them what they did to that poor lady.

But there is also a good deal of truth I think in what others have said on this thread. for a long time there has been an erosion in respect and discipline in society as a whole. How many of you, if you asked your grandparents, would find that they well remember the local bobby and wouldn't have dared to cheek him when they were kids, as their parents would be told and then they would be in for hell? How many of you can truly say that having the cane in school 'emotionaly disturbed' you for the rest of your life? It is respect that has been lost, respect for teachers, for the police and for others in general. Now, due to a weak justice system and the fact that every criminal knows their rights under the human rights act, and there is no fear in them anymore, as 'you can't touch me, mate' is the order of the day.

And, I hate to say it, but I also hope that these two poor, vulnerable and misunderstood individuals suffer every single day of their too-short sentence, and that every waking hour is a nightmare for them.

Only then will justice be served, and the cowards face what they have done.
'Vulnerable teenage years' - And at what age do you learn right from wrong, good from bad, correct action and incorrect action? These two were old enough by far to have had those lessons and to have heeded them. What they did was sadsitic and cruel beyond measure, and they should rightly be punished for it. Some have harked back to the past, and yes, there have always been killers, rapists, poisoners etc - the most infamous being Jack the Ripper of course. But that does not change the fact that these two knew what they were doing was wrong, yet they still did it, much as those others in the past did. But now we are supposed to 'understand' them, and ensure that they get a good grounding for when they come out etc. Perhaps a better, and far more expedient option is to do what works for all bullies, and do to them what they did to that poor lady. But there is also a good deal of truth I think in what others have said on this thread. for a long time there has been an erosion in respect and discipline in society as a whole. How many of you, if you asked your grandparents, would find that they well remember the local bobby and wouldn't have dared to cheek him when they were kids, as their parents would be told and then they would be in for hell? How many of you can truly say that having the cane in school 'emotionaly disturbed' you for the rest of your life? It is respect that has been lost, respect for teachers, for the police and for others in general. Now, due to a weak justice system and the fact that every criminal knows their rights under the human rights act, and there is no fear in them anymore, as 'you can't touch me, mate' is the order of the day. And, I hate to say it, but I also hope that these two poor, vulnerable and misunderstood individuals suffer every single day of their too-short sentence, and that every waking hour is a nightmare for them. Only then will justice be served, and the cowards face what they have done. Longbowman666

11:37pm Tue 19 Jun 12

Insel_Affen says...

Some excellent points Longbowman666. You hit the nail bang on that respect has been lost for society and the erosion has happened over years. Human rights have been (wrongly) used to protect an individual. One Section of the ECHR says that the collective has a responsibility to the individual; the (little heard of) next section then states that the individual has an equal responsibility to the collective.

I’ll come clean and now agree that I was being deliberatively provocative about these to try to sharpen up my debating skills but also to see what reaction I’d get. It has been nice to have genuine articulate debate rather ‘than hang the scum’, but we are all entitled to our say.

I do not condone in any way or shape what these two did or that it was right for the judge to reduce their sentences. I hope they do learn their lesson, but fear that today’s decayed society will elevate them to hero status when they get out and they will be able to live a very comfortable life at the taxpayers’ expense for the rest of their natural.
Some excellent points Longbowman666. You hit the nail bang on that respect has been lost for society and the erosion has happened over years. Human rights have been (wrongly) used to protect an individual. One Section of the ECHR says that the collective has a responsibility to the individual; the (little heard of) next section then states that the individual has an equal responsibility to the collective. I’ll come clean and now agree that I was being deliberatively provocative about these to try to sharpen up my debating skills but also to see what reaction I’d get. It has been nice to have genuine articulate debate rather ‘than hang the scum’, but we are all entitled to our say. I do not condone in any way or shape what these two did or that it was right for the judge to reduce their sentences. I hope they do learn their lesson, but fear that today’s decayed society will elevate them to hero status when they get out and they will be able to live a very comfortable life at the taxpayers’ expense for the rest of their natural. Insel_Affen

1:24am Wed 20 Jun 12

Darlo1883 says...

I'll guarantee that the person subject to the threats and actions by these two animals will take more than 6 years to forget what she has endured. I wonder what protection she will receive when the two of the are released?
Too much attention it sought by the kids of today with mobile phones, facebook, etc. where people brag about something so terrible. If his mother had anything about her, she should have give him a good kicking before taking him down to the station, different point of view or not, these are scumbags, nothing else. Let's hope they get some of their own medicine in the big house. I wonder if they threaten all of the inmates the same way they did to a defenceless, disabled person, my guess would be not
I'll guarantee that the person subject to the threats and actions by these two animals will take more than 6 years to forget what she has endured. I wonder what protection she will receive when the two of the are released? Too much attention it sought by the kids of today with mobile phones, facebook, etc. where people brag about something so terrible. If his mother had anything about her, she should have give him a good kicking before taking him down to the station, different point of view or not, these are scumbags, nothing else. Let's hope they get some of their own medicine in the big house. I wonder if they threaten all of the inmates the same way they did to a defenceless, disabled person, my guess would be not Darlo1883

1:55am Wed 20 Jun 12

darkangel73 says...

What ever happend to law and order ???? what respect was paid to the poor victim that went though an ordeal that will be with her for many years ,,, shocking ,,, rack the sentence up never mind cutting it ,,
This all happend in the safety of the OAP home what a pair of spinless chavs shame on you shame the police dont plaster there mug shots all over the place waring people what scum these two are I bet there pairents are so proud of them
What ever happend to law and order ???? what respect was paid to the poor victim that went though an ordeal that will be with her for many years ,,, shocking ,,, rack the sentence up never mind cutting it ,, This all happend in the safety of the OAP home what a pair of spinless chavs shame on you shame the police dont plaster there mug shots all over the place waring people what scum these two are I bet there pairents are so proud of them darkangel73

7:54pm Wed 20 Jun 12

Old_rumpole says...

Er, she wasn't an oap, secondly although described as disabled she suffered from a mild learning difficulty, thirdly judges hands are tied by sentencing guidelines council guidelines, set up by last govt.
Er, she wasn't an oap, secondly although described as disabled she suffered from a mild learning difficulty, thirdly judges hands are tied by sentencing guidelines council guidelines, set up by last govt. Old_rumpole

12:47pm Sat 23 Jun 12

user name 3 says...

The judge should be made to serve the remainder of their sentence. Even 8 years wasn't enough, now they'll be out in 3, ridiculous.
The judge should be made to serve the remainder of their sentence. Even 8 years wasn't enough, now they'll be out in 3, ridiculous. user name 3

9:01pm Thu 28 Jun 12

peppapaigey says...

As much as I think what they have done is disgraceful, they are still young and the judge has to take into account mitigating factors. You also have to remember that they are still young. I remember in primary school when Josh Stobbs punched me and I lost a tooth; thank the lord it was just a milk tooth!
As much as I think what they have done is disgraceful, they are still young and the judge has to take into account mitigating factors. You also have to remember that they are still young. I remember in primary school when Josh Stobbs punched me and I lost a tooth; thank the lord it was just a milk tooth! peppapaigey

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