'£1 in every £5 paid in council tax spent on staff pensions' (From The Northern Echo)
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'£1 in every £5 paid in council tax spent on staff pensions'
8:00am Wednesday 25th January 2012 in Darlington Borough Council News
LOCAL councils in the region paid out more than £280m in contributions to employees’ pensions last year, new figures show.
The TaxPayers’ Alliance, which carried out the research, calculated that employer contributions equated to £1 out of every £5 gathered in council tax.
The figures show Durham County Council paid out £54m in contributions during 2010-11 – among the highest totals in the country.
The authority had 29 councillors enrolled on its pension scheme. In contrast, no councillors from Middlesbrough, Hartlepool, Richmondshire and Ryedale were signed up to their schemes.
The report also calculated how much residents paid last year towards their local authority’s pension scheme.
The highest was Middlesbrough at £118.27 per person.
Matthew Sinclair, director of the TaxPayers’ Alliance, said: “These gold-plated retirement deals have all but disappeared in the private sector and it simply isn’t sustainable to keep the system as it is.
“The figures show the urgent need to reform the outdated local government pension scheme and tackle the growing trend of councillors joining.”
In response, Don McLure, corporate director of resources at Durham County Council, said: “Employer contributions are set by a professional body every three years when the pension fund is reviewed.
“The council has both a statutory obligation and a duty to follow the guidance given.”
Darlington Borough Council said the report did not take into account the number of employees each local authority had.
A spokesman said: “The cost of pensions is a reflection of the nationally agreed scheme, which is currently being reviewed by the Government to reduce the costs.”
North Yorkshire County Council said that less than four per cent of its total spend was paid as employer pension contributions – amounting to £1 in every £26.
A spokesman added: “Less than one third of our councillors are in the pension scheme – again well below the national average – and the number has reduced in recent years to 20.”
Comments(53)
tpk
says...
1:08pm Wed 25 Jan 12
Band D rate
£1514 - Middlesbrough
£1512 - Newcastle
£1394 - Darlington
£1343 - Sunderland
£688 - Westminster
Seems to me that the more Labour counsellors are present, the higher the council tax is!!
The Grim North
says...
1:42pm Wed 25 Jan 12
stevegg
says...
1:52pm Wed 25 Jan 12
st-george1
says...
2:04pm Wed 25 Jan 12
y requests to freeze council taxes in order to spend even more recklessly by forcing us all to pay more for less ...
now thats how they see democracy !
swissball
says...
2:54pm Wed 25 Jan 12
Jaga
says...
3:20pm Wed 25 Jan 12
Margaret Thatcher, Thames TV 5th February1976.
Says it all really. At least I didn't vote for them.
Nicholas_Till
says...
4:42pm Wed 25 Jan 12
But it does suggest some councillors believe they'll be that for a pretty long period of time! Unless they postively enjoy for ever chopping and changing their personal financial schemes.
ilexuk
says...
5:41pm Wed 25 Jan 12
if you say yes ,
then how come ,it takes months longer to do paper work now ,than what it done 10 years ago,
this town should be twined with dog s--t city,
YarmYorkie
says...
6:10pm Wed 25 Jan 12
Steeleye
says...
7:34pm Wed 25 Jan 12
1. Every time you buy a box of soap powder from the supermarket, a significant proportion of the price you pay is contributing to the Tesco pension scheme, the Proctor and Gamble pension scheme, the transport company's pension scheme and everyone else's pension scheme in the supply chain.
2. Westminster is always going to have a cheaper band D council tax as a significant proportion of the properties in its area will be in band H. Something like 90% of the properties in the north east are in band A so councils in this region have to set a correspondingly higher tax to raise the same amount of income as Westminster. Its called the tax base.
3. I would like to share a quote from the independent review of public sector pensions commissioned by THIS Government.
"The Commission firmly rejected the claim that current public service pensions are ‘gold plated.’ The average pension paid to pensioner members is around £7,800 per year,
while the median payment is around £5,600."
Thank you.
MST75
says...
8:04pm Wed 25 Jan 12
Steeleye wrote:so point 3 - you might as well say that here we have an apple compared to an orange.......average and median are to very different things
Just 3 things to say to add to the debate:
1. Every time you buy a box of soap powder from the supermarket, a significant proportion of the price you pay is contributing to the Tesco pension scheme, the Proctor and Gamble pension scheme, the transport company's pension scheme and everyone else's pension scheme in the supply chain.
2. Westminster is always going to have a cheaper band D council tax as a significant proportion of the properties in its area will be in band H. Something like 90% of the properties in the north east are in band A so councils in this region have to set a correspondingly higher tax to raise the same amount of income as Westminster. Its called the tax base.
3. I would like to share a quote from the independent review of public sector pensions commissioned by THIS Government.
"The Commission firmly rejected the claim that current public service pensions are ‘gold plated.’ The average pension paid to pensioner members is around £7,800 per year,
while the median payment is around £5,600."
Thank you.
johnny_p
says...
8:17pm Wed 25 Jan 12
Steeleye wrote:But I have a choice where I buy my groceries from.
Just 3 things to say to add to the debate:
1. Every time you buy a box of soap powder from the supermarket, a significant proportion of the price you pay is contributing to the Tesco pension scheme, the Proctor and Gamble pension scheme, the transport company's pension scheme and everyone else's pension scheme in the supply chain.
2. Westminster is always going to have a cheaper band D council tax as a significant proportion of the properties in its area will be in band H. Something like 90% of the properties in the north east are in band A so councils in this region have to set a correspondingly higher tax to raise the same amount of income as Westminster. Its called the tax base.
3. I would like to share a quote from the independent review of public sector pensions commissioned by THIS Government.
"The Commission firmly rejected the claim that current public service pensions are ‘gold plated.’ The average pension paid to pensioner members is around £7,800 per year,
while the median payment is around £5,600."
Thank you.
I don't have any choice at all about the number of people in the public sector who fund their wages and pension from my earnings.
pilchrat
says...
8:31pm Wed 25 Jan 12
Pickles paints a picture he's helping cash strapped folk by funding a 1 YEAR ONLY freeze after which there'll be a two year gap!
eg Council puts tax up 1% this year, meaning next year there's no less money in the coffers.
eg Pickles covers this years 1% rise. Next year that's no longer there, meaning next year there's 1% LESS money. So yet more cuts.
eg Councils take Pickles offer. 1% rise is shelved. Next year, they need to raise it twice fold to a 2% rise to make up for the shortfall.
Eric Pickles is a complete eejit.
But that's alright. Everyone reading this hates councils so anything to stoke the "sack them all" attitude is more than justified. Lets just cut MORE stuff. At what point will folk go "Hmmm, I've no more leisure centre, my libraries gone, my mother can't stay in her care home as it's closed, the roads are nacked, the children's centre has cut its opening hours, and the theatre I used to enjoy is shut" before they realise there's no more things that can be cut!! Ngggg.
pilchrat
says...
8:35pm Wed 25 Jan 12
D D Coy
says...
8:37pm Wed 25 Jan 12
1. What is the average pension of the former Directors of the old DCC, the Boroughs and Districts that now make up the New DCC?
2. How much was the average lump sum that each Director received?
3 What would the average pension of those former Directors be if they had not received a massive pay rise at the inception of the New DCC in 2008? (Just as the councillors, cabinet & leader of DCC awarded to themselve's in the 'if you scratch my back, then i'll scratch your back scenario').
4. What would have been the average lump sum of the surplus Directors have been, had they not awarded themselves massive salary increase's?
F.O.I request required!
DCC Labour Councillors such as Bob Young are going to have a massive pay cut as from May 2013, they will not be rewarded to failure and need to make contingency plans for another income, the game is up!
D D Coy
says...
8:42pm Wed 25 Jan 12
End of story.
JohnGrehen
says...
9:09pm Wed 25 Jan 12
johnny_p wrote:Correct. And you also have no choice if the council decides to increase council tax by up to 3.5%
Steeleye wrote: Just 3 things to say to add to the debate: 1. Every time you buy a box of soap powder from the supermarket, a significant proportion of the price you pay is contributing to the Tesco pension scheme, the Proctor and Gamble pension scheme, the transport company's pension scheme and everyone else's pension scheme in the supply chain. 2. Westminster is always going to have a cheaper band D council tax as a significant proportion of the properties in its area will be in band H. Something like 90% of the properties in the north east are in band A so councils in this region have to set a correspondingly higher tax to raise the same amount of income as Westminster. Its called the tax base. 3. I would like to share a quote from the independent review of public sector pensions commissioned by THIS Government. "The Commission firmly rejected the claim that current public service pensions are ‘gold plated.’ The average pension paid to pensioner members is around £7,800 per year, while the median payment is around £5,600." Thank you.But I have a choice where I buy my groceries from. I don't have any choice at all about the number of people in the public sector who fund their wages and pension from my earnings.
.
Referendum needed only if a rise above 3.5% is proposed.
D D Coy
says...
9:27pm Wed 25 Jan 12
Steeleye wrote:2011/12 Westminster Council Tax
Just 3 things to say to add to the debate:
1. Every time you buy a box of soap powder from the supermarket, a significant proportion of the price you pay is contributing to the Tesco pension scheme, the Proctor and Gamble pension scheme, the transport company's pension scheme and everyone else's pension scheme in the supply chain.
2. Westminster is always going to have a cheaper band D council tax as a significant proportion of the properties in its area will be in band H. Something like 90% of the properties in the north east are in band A so councils in this region have to set a correspondingly higher tax to raise the same amount of income as Westminster. Its called the tax base.
3. I would like to share a quote from the independent review of public sector pensions commissioned by THIS Government.
"The Commission firmly rejected the claim that current public service pensions are ‘gold plated.’ The average pension paid to pensioner members is around £7,800 per year,
while the median payment is around £5,600."
Thank you.
Band H £1,375 Band D £688
2011/12 Durham County Council Tax
Band H £3,048 to £3,560 at Peterlee
Band D £1,528 to £1,780 at Peterlee
2011/12 Darlington B.C. Tax
Band H £2,784 to £2,835 Bishopton
Band D £1,392 to £1,417 Bishopton
The difference between Council Tax Band A to H will be relevant, no matter which authority that you examine.
D D Coy
says...
9:34pm Wed 25 Jan 12
bingbong
says...
9:53pm Wed 25 Jan 12
D D Coy wrote:And you, D D Coy, seem to have some chip on your shoulder about Labour run Councils and the fact they seem to have some exclusivity on financial waste.
@ Pilchat not everyone reading this hates councils its just that the financial waste of Labour Councils, that have to pander to every single whim seem to take no account of the financial obligation that they have to manage the Council Tax responsibly for each electorate.
.
If you'd care to look it up (not that it suits your argument), Councils up and down the country (regardless of whether they are Labour, Tory, Lib Dem or Monster Raving Loony) are cutting front line services. They will also be paying similar salaries to their Chief Execs, will be paying similar expenses to their Councillors, will be paying the same levels of pensions and will have a broadly similar tax base (as has been pointed out by Pilchrat, who has, along with Steeleye posted the most balanced and informed response to this artilce, rather than the usual, rabid, one-sided rants usually seen on this web site).
D D Coy
says...
10:35pm Wed 25 Jan 12
bingbong wrote:I see, so the Council Tax in County Durham is so high because it is a national problem. And nothing to do with the promised savings of £21m per annum with upto 600 redundancies, promised by the ruling labour group in 2006, if a new DCC were created in 2009.
D D Coy wrote:And you, D D Coy, seem to have some chip on your shoulder about Labour run Councils and the fact they seem to have some exclusivity on financial waste.
@ Pilchat not everyone reading this hates councils its just that the financial waste of Labour Councils, that have to pander to every single whim seem to take no account of the financial obligation that they have to manage the Council Tax responsibly for each electorate.
.
If you'd care to look it up (not that it suits your argument), Councils up and down the country (regardless of whether they are Labour, Tory, Lib Dem or Monster Raving Loony) are cutting front line services. They will also be paying similar salaries to their Chief Execs, will be paying similar expenses to their Councillors, will be paying the same levels of pensions and will have a broadly similar tax base (as has been pointed out by Pilchrat, who has, along with Steeleye posted the most balanced and informed response to this artilce, rather than the usual, rabid, one-sided rants usually seen on this web site).
Timeline to disaster:
Along came 2008 & the leader awarded massive increases to all directors, himself, the cabinet & all other councillors, 2009 came along and nothing happened, 2010 came and nothing happened, 2011 and the penny started to drop, we had better do as we promised back in 2006 and start to cut costs, only because the government forced DCC hand.
As for the chip, rants and rabid rants of other correspondents, I personally will be the happiest person on the planet never mind in County Durham once the Council Tax in County Durham starts to reduce.
As DCC Labour Group seem incapable of achieving what they promised, then I will cherish the demise of its slender majority at the May 2013 elections, and who knows 'The monster raving looney party' may win?
"ONE THING IS CERTAIN, THEY COULDN'T MAKE ANY BIGGER HASH OF DURHAM COUNTY COUNCIL".
Bagend1
says...
2:13am Thu 26 Jan 12
house fly
says...
12:57pm Thu 26 Jan 12
D D Coy
says...
2:20pm Thu 26 Jan 12
house fly wrote:Well thats it, then problem solved!
Durham County Council has more Band A properties than other Councils quoted above, thus generating less income from Council Tax.
Steeleye
says...
7:04pm Thu 26 Jan 12
johnny_p wrote:So you buy it from Sainsbury's and you end up contributing to the Sainsbury pension fund.
Steeleye wrote:But I have a choice where I buy my groceries from.
Just 3 things to say to add to the debate:
1. Every time you buy a box of soap powder from the supermarket, a significant proportion of the price you pay is contributing to the Tesco pension scheme, the Proctor and Gamble pension scheme, the transport company's pension scheme and everyone else's pension scheme in the supply chain.
2. Westminster is always going to have a cheaper band D council tax as a significant proportion of the properties in its area will be in band H. Something like 90% of the properties in the north east are in band A so councils in this region have to set a correspondingly higher tax to raise the same amount of income as Westminster. Its called the tax base.
3. I would like to share a quote from the independent review of public sector pensions commissioned by THIS Government.
"The Commission firmly rejected the claim that current public service pensions are ‘gold plated.’ The average pension paid to pensioner members is around £7,800 per year,
while the median payment is around £5,600."
Thank you.
I don't have any choice at all about the number of people in the public sector who fund their wages and pension from my earnings.
Steeleye
says...
7:08pm Thu 26 Jan 12
D D Coy wrote:Why not use average council tax figures i.e. the average yearly bill as a comparison? See what the figures look like then.
Steeleye wrote:2011/12 Westminster Council Tax
Just 3 things to say to add to the debate:
1. Every time you buy a box of soap powder from the supermarket, a significant proportion of the price you pay is contributing to the Tesco pension scheme, the Proctor and Gamble pension scheme, the transport company's pension scheme and everyone else's pension scheme in the supply chain.
2. Westminster is always going to have a cheaper band D council tax as a significant proportion of the properties in its area will be in band H. Something like 90% of the properties in the north east are in band A so councils in this region have to set a correspondingly higher tax to raise the same amount of income as Westminster. Its called the tax base.
3. I would like to share a quote from the independent review of public sector pensions commissioned by THIS Government.
"The Commission firmly rejected the claim that current public service pensions are ‘gold plated.’ The average pension paid to pensioner members is around £7,800 per year,
while the median payment is around £5,600."
Thank you.
Band H £1,375 Band D £688
2011/12 Durham County Council Tax
Band H £3,048 to £3,560 at Peterlee
Band D £1,528 to £1,780 at Peterlee
2011/12 Darlington B.C. Tax
Band H £2,784 to £2,835 Bishopton
Band D £1,392 to £1,417 Bishopton
The difference between Council Tax Band A to H will be relevant, no matter which authority that you examine.
Steeleye
says...
7:14pm Thu 26 Jan 12
MST75 wrote:Its not my quote. Its Lord Hutton's. I think that he was quoting both the average and the median because the average may not be representative if the population (i.e. the salary range of public sector workers) is skewed.
Steeleye wrote:so point 3 - you might as well say that here we have an apple compared to an orange.......average and median are to very different things
Just 3 things to say to add to the debate:
1. Every time you buy a box of soap powder from the supermarket, a significant proportion of the price you pay is contributing to the Tesco pension scheme, the Proctor and Gamble pension scheme, the transport company's pension scheme and everyone else's pension scheme in the supply chain.
2. Westminster is always going to have a cheaper band D council tax as a significant proportion of the properties in its area will be in band H. Something like 90% of the properties in the north east are in band A so councils in this region have to set a correspondingly higher tax to raise the same amount of income as Westminster. Its called the tax base.
3. I would like to share a quote from the independent review of public sector pensions commissioned by THIS Government.
"The Commission firmly rejected the claim that current public service pensions are ‘gold plated.’ The average pension paid to pensioner members is around £7,800 per year,
while the median payment is around £5,600."
Thank you.
The main point is whether you use the average of £7,800 or the median of £5,600, its hardly what the press refer to as gold plated.
the-big-yin
says...
8:23pm Thu 26 Jan 12
my little ditty!!!
employed by the council
you-ll have no strife..
your guaranteed a job for life...
we pay for your pension..
we pay for you all the way....
but do not worry...
your labour led council will be voted out one day!!!!!!
thank you its a bit basic but did not want to put any swear words into it!!!!!!
D D Coy
says...
8:50pm Thu 26 Jan 12
LEEDS CITY COUNCIL.
Band A £870.93 6/9 (% of Band D)
Band B £1,016.08 7/9
Band C £1,161.25 8/9
Band D £1,306.40 9/9
Band E £1,596.71 11/9
Band F £1,887.02 13/9
Band G £2,177.33 15/9
Band H £2,612.81 18/9
Durham County Tax (Spennymoor)
Band A £1,148.93 6/9 (% of Band D)
Band B £1,340.42 7/9
Band C £1,531.91 8/8
Band D £1,723.40 9/9
Band E £2,106.38 11/9
Band F £2,489.36 13/9
Band G £2,872.33 15/9
Band H £3,446.80 18/9
Massive differences from Bands A to H, something is wrong somewhere at DCC?
I can't find the medion Council Tax on the DCC website, perhaps you can ask someone at County Hall to place that on the website, the Leeds City Council website isn't any better, another similarity there.
linda. j
says...
10:22pm Thu 26 Jan 12
D D Coy
says...
11:10pm Thu 26 Jan 12
johnny_p
says...
8:36am Fri 27 Jan 12
Steeleye wrote:Again- yes correct. But I can CHOOSE where I buy my groceries from. If Sainsbury's ran their pension scheme inefficiently their groceries would be too expensive. Or the quality of their produce would be poor. Nobody would shop there. They would go out of business.
johnny_p wrote:So you buy it from Sainsbury's and you end up contributing to the Sainsbury pension fund.
Steeleye wrote:But I have a choice where I buy my groceries from.
Just 3 things to say to add to the debate:
1. Every time you buy a box of soap powder from the supermarket, a significant proportion of the price you pay is contributing to the Tesco pension scheme, the Proctor and Gamble pension scheme, the transport company's pension scheme and everyone else's pension scheme in the supply chain.
2. Westminster is always going to have a cheaper band D council tax as a significant proportion of the properties in its area will be in band H. Something like 90% of the properties in the north east are in band A so councils in this region have to set a correspondingly higher tax to raise the same amount of income as Westminster. Its called the tax base.
3. I would like to share a quote from the independent review of public sector pensions commissioned by THIS Government.
"The Commission firmly rejected the claim that current public service pensions are ‘gold plated.’ The average pension paid to pensioner members is around £7,800 per year,
while the median payment is around £5,600."
Thank you.
I don't have any choice at all about the number of people in the public sector who fund their wages and pension from my earnings.
I don't have that choice with public sector workers. There are too many of them. They pay themselves too much. It doesn't matter if they perform badly. They are un-sackable. They don't earn any money for me, but take my tax money to fund their lifestyle.
Can you understand that Steeleye?
D D Coy
says...
11:44am Fri 27 Jan 12
As I have said for almost two years the deciding factor of the local government elections of May 2013' will be the 'Council Tax'.
The Conservative Party seem to have clicked onto that idea and no-doubt they will focus their election campaign on that area, it is a no brainer, perhaps that's why Labour in County Durham can't see it?
'With both Unemployment & Council Tax in County Durham amongst the highest levels in the UK, County Hall is in for a massive shock in 2013'.
'LABOUR ISN'T WORKING IN COUNTY DURHAM, 9000 JOBS LOST IN SPENNYMOOR UNDER NEW LABOUR'.
mark.wilkinson
says...
1:35pm Fri 27 Jan 12
Lifetime Townie
says...
4:28pm Fri 27 Jan 12
Steeleye
says...
5:18pm Fri 27 Jan 12
johnny_p wrote:You still have to buy food from somewhere, the same way that you have to pay taxes. You will be contributing to somneone's pension in the end. You could choose to move and pay to another local authority's pension fund or emigrate and pay towards the pensions of civil servants in another country. All these are choices. However, public servants cannot choose the way in which their services are funded. They cannot choose to stop charging taxes and sell cars or make widgets instead.
Steeleye wrote:Again- yes correct. But I can CHOOSE where I buy my groceries from. If Sainsbury's ran their pension scheme inefficiently their groceries would be too expensive. Or the quality of their produce would be poor. Nobody would shop there. They would go out of business.
johnny_p wrote:So you buy it from Sainsbury's and you end up contributing to the Sainsbury pension fund.
Steeleye wrote:But I have a choice where I buy my groceries from.
Just 3 things to say to add to the debate:
1. Every time you buy a box of soap powder from the supermarket, a significant proportion of the price you pay is contributing to the Tesco pension scheme, the Proctor and Gamble pension scheme, the transport company's pension scheme and everyone else's pension scheme in the supply chain.
2. Westminster is always going to have a cheaper band D council tax as a significant proportion of the properties in its area will be in band H. Something like 90% of the properties in the north east are in band A so councils in this region have to set a correspondingly higher tax to raise the same amount of income as Westminster. Its called the tax base.
3. I would like to share a quote from the independent review of public sector pensions commissioned by THIS Government.
"The Commission firmly rejected the claim that current public service pensions are ‘gold plated.’ The average pension paid to pensioner members is around £7,800 per year,
while the median payment is around £5,600."
Thank you.
I don't have any choice at all about the number of people in the public sector who fund their wages and pension from my earnings.
I don't have that choice with public sector workers. There are too many of them. They pay themselves too much. It doesn't matter if they perform badly. They are un-sackable. They don't earn any money for me, but take my tax money to fund their lifestyle.
Can you understand that Steeleye?
Pensions for public sector employees are a saving in the long run. As the Hutton Rview points out, if all public sector employees pulled out of their pension schemes, the welfare bill would increase massively as they would claim more pension and benefits from the state when they retire.
Steeleye
says...
5:21pm Fri 27 Jan 12
the-big-yin wrote:Guaranteed a job for life? I think that you mustn't have been reading the papers or watching the news recently. Redundancies from the public sector have been outsrippting those from the private sector for over a year now.
my quote!!!!!
my little ditty!!!
employed by the council
you-ll have no strife..
your guaranteed a job for life...
we pay for your pension..
we pay for you all the way....
but do not worry...
your labour led council will be voted out one day!!!!!!
thank you its a bit basic but did not want to put any swear words into it!!!!!!
Steeleye
says...
5:39pm Fri 27 Jan 12
D D Coy wrote:Try www.communities.gov.
Durham County Council is similar to Leeds City Council in size, types of housing in Council Tax Bands & population, which is often used by DCC leader as a comparison to Durham County Council (especially when Cllrs allowances are concerned). Below is a comparison of Leeds City Council & Durham County Council eg: Spennymoor (one of highest in the UK) as the example. N.B the fraction such Band A 6/9 equates to 2/3rd of Band D
LEEDS CITY COUNCIL.
Band A £870.93 6/9 (% of Band D)
Band B £1,016.08 7/9
Band C £1,161.25 8/9
Band D £1,306.40 9/9
Band E £1,596.71 11/9
Band F £1,887.02 13/9
Band G £2,177.33 15/9
Band H £2,612.81 18/9
Durham County Tax (Spennymoor)
Band A £1,148.93 6/9 (% of Band D)
Band B £1,340.42 7/9
Band C £1,531.91 8/8
Band D £1,723.40 9/9
Band E £2,106.38 11/9
Band F £2,489.36 13/9
Band G £2,872.33 15/9
Band H £3,446.80 18/9
Massive differences from Bands A to H, something is wrong somewhere at DCC?
I can't find the medion Council Tax on the DCC website, perhaps you can ask someone at County Hall to place that on the website, the Leeds City Council website isn't any better, another similarity there.
uk
Happy searching.
Average council tax per dwelling for Durham is £1283. The average council tax for Leeds is £1123.
Some other interesting figures from theis website:
56% of houses in the north east are in band A. Only 7% of houses in London are. 70% of all houses in band H in England are in London or the south east. Authorities in this part of the world therefore don't have to set as high a council tax as the north east to collect the same amount of money as the house bands are all much higher.
omgdurham
says...
7:28pm Fri 27 Jan 12
spragger
says...
7:44pm Fri 27 Jan 12
The northern lot have found a new wheeze which is to get us to provide a taxpayer funded pension for each of these useless Councillors.
Problem is up here so many benefit from this largesse there are not enough taxpayers to boot these parasites into touch
johnny_p
says...
9:42pm Fri 27 Jan 12
spragger wrote:Absolutely Spragger. We now have had fifteen years of a Labour government who have conditioned people into having absolutely no clue about where money comes from and who believe that there is "bottomless pit" of the stuff we can all help ourselves to.
One thing you learn about Labour politicians is that they are hooked on spending & in most cases wasting, other peoples money
The northern lot have found a new wheeze which is to get us to provide a taxpayer funded pension for each of these useless Councillors.
Problem is up here so many benefit from this largesse there are not enough taxpayers to boot these parasites into touch
Liamsm
says...
8:30am Sat 28 Jan 12
Steeleye wrote:About time these public sector workers accept what everyone else has had to accept for years. Deal with it or do something else!! Pension....what is a pension?? I wish I could afford a pension. Hey I know the answer go on strike if your not happy.
the-big-yin wrote:Guaranteed a job for life? I think that you mustn't have been reading the papers or watching the news recently. Redundancies from the public sector have been outsrippting those from the private sector for over a year now.
my quote!!!!!
my little ditty!!!
employed by the council
you-ll have no strife..
your guaranteed a job for life...
we pay for your pension..
we pay for you all the way....
but do not worry...
your labour led council will be voted out one day!!!!!!
thank you its a bit basic but did not want to put any swear words into it!!!!!!
caberwocky1
says...
11:52am Sat 28 Jan 12
http://www.direct.go
v.uk/en/Pensionsandr
etirementplanning/Co
mpanyandpersonalpens
ions/DG_183783?cid=R
etirement%20&%20Pens
ions&type=sponsoreds
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the-big-yin
says...
1:36pm Sat 28 Jan 12
Steeleye wrote:i they dig out the workers near pension age and make those redundant!!!and keep the bone idle council workers who stand about doing nothing all day...the quality of the work is absolutely crap!!!
the-big-yin wrote:Guaranteed a job for life? I think that you mustn't have been reading the papers or watching the news recently. Redundancies from the public sector have been outsrippting those from the private sector for over a year now.
my quote!!!!!
my little ditty!!!
employed by the council
you-ll have no strife..
your guaranteed a job for life...
we pay for your pension..
we pay for you all the way....
but do not worry...
your labour led council will be voted out one day!!!!!!
thank you its a bit basic but did not want to put any swear words into it!!!!!!
no wonder this country is going down the pan!!!!!75% of the council workers are useless at their jobs....you only see them when they come out of the cafes and chip shops....oh!! and when they pull out of their hiding places in picnic areas and woods and laybys....you all kanow who you are!!!!!!!!vote out dbc and dcc.....bunch of two faced liars.....
Steeleye
says...
5:07pm Sat 28 Jan 12
the-big-yin wrote:I know quite a few ex public sector workers who were nowhere near retirement age and who were made compulsorily redundant but I can see from your vitriolic comments that there is little point in trying to convince you.
Steeleye wrote:i they dig out the workers near pension age and make those redundant!!!and keep the bone idle council workers who stand about doing nothing all day...the quality of the work is absolutely crap!!!
the-big-yin wrote:Guaranteed a job for life? I think that you mustn't have been reading the papers or watching the news recently. Redundancies from the public sector have been outsrippting those from the private sector for over a year now.
my quote!!!!!
my little ditty!!!
employed by the council
you-ll have no strife..
your guaranteed a job for life...
we pay for your pension..
we pay for you all the way....
but do not worry...
your labour led council will be voted out one day!!!!!!
thank you its a bit basic but did not want to put any swear words into it!!!!!!
no wonder this country is going down the pan!!!!!75% of the council workers are useless at their jobs....you only see them when they come out of the cafes and chip shops....oh!! and when they pull out of their hiding places in picnic areas and woods and laybys....you all kanow who you are!!!!!!!!vote out dbc and dcc.....bunch of two faced liars.....
johnny_p
says...
4:03am Mon 30 Jan 12
Steeleye wrote:But of course, if I decide that I am paying too much tax, or paying too much council tax I still have a choice. I can move to another local authority area, or even to another country. A country where I would pay far less in taxes; a place where far fewer people are employed in the public sector.
johnny_p wrote:You still have to buy food from somewhere, the same way that you have to pay taxes. You will be contributing to somneone's pension in the end. You could choose to move and pay to another local authority's pension fund or emigrate and pay towards the pensions of civil servants in another country. All these are choices. However, public servants cannot choose the way in which their services are funded. They cannot choose to stop charging taxes and sell cars or make widgets instead.
Steeleye wrote:Again- yes correct. But I can CHOOSE where I buy my groceries from. If Sainsbury's ran their pension scheme inefficiently their groceries would be too expensive. Or the quality of their produce would be poor. Nobody would shop there. They would go out of business.
johnny_p wrote:So you buy it from Sainsbury's and you end up contributing to the Sainsbury pension fund.
Steeleye wrote:But I have a choice where I buy my groceries from.
Just 3 things to say to add to the debate:
1. Every time you buy a box of soap powder from the supermarket, a significant proportion of the price you pay is contributing to the Tesco pension scheme, the Proctor and Gamble pension scheme, the transport company's pension scheme and everyone else's pension scheme in the supply chain.
2. Westminster is always going to have a cheaper band D council tax as a significant proportion of the properties in its area will be in band H. Something like 90% of the properties in the north east are in band A so councils in this region have to set a correspondingly higher tax to raise the same amount of income as Westminster. Its called the tax base.
3. I would like to share a quote from the independent review of public sector pensions commissioned by THIS Government.
"The Commission firmly rejected the claim that current public service pensions are ‘gold plated.’ The average pension paid to pensioner members is around £7,800 per year,
while the median payment is around £5,600."
Thank you.
I don't have any choice at all about the number of people in the public sector who fund their wages and pension from my earnings.
I don't have that choice with public sector workers. There are too many of them. They pay themselves too much. It doesn't matter if they perform badly. They are un-sackable. They don't earn any money for me, but take my tax money to fund their lifestyle.
Can you understand that Steeleye?
Pensions for public sector employees are a saving in the long run. As the Hutton Rview points out, if all public sector employees pulled out of their pension schemes, the welfare bill would increase massively as they would claim more pension and benefits from the state when they retire.
As a skilled private sector worker I have this choice. And tell me- if everyone like myself decides to leave the UK, who then will fund public sector wages and pensions?
the-big-yin
says...
1:28pm Mon 30 Jan 12
Steeleye wrote:they probably deserved to be made redundant...oh!! could you just have said bitter and not vitriolic...much easier to understand.....i recently did a survey on dcc and the workforce...even 75% of those said that they skived off as much as they could get away with.......down to the bosses then is-nt it.....i love paying my council tax...not!!!!!!
the-big-yin wrote:I know quite a few ex public sector workers who were nowhere near retirement age and who were made compulsorily redundant but I can see from your vitriolic comments that there is little point in trying to convince you.
Steeleye wrote:i they dig out the workers near pension age and make those redundant!!!and keep the bone idle council workers who stand about doing nothing all day...the quality of the work is absolutely crap!!!
the-big-yin wrote:Guaranteed a job for life? I think that you mustn't have been reading the papers or watching the news recently. Redundancies from the public sector have been outsrippting those from the private sector for over a year now.
my quote!!!!!
my little ditty!!!
employed by the council
you-ll have no strife..
your guaranteed a job for life...
we pay for your pension..
we pay for you all the way....
but do not worry...
your labour led council will be voted out one day!!!!!!
thank you its a bit basic but did not want to put any swear words into it!!!!!!
no wonder this country is going down the pan!!!!!75% of the council workers are useless at their jobs....you only see them when they come out of the cafes and chip shops....oh!! and when they pull out of their hiding places in picnic areas and woods and laybys....you all kanow who you are!!!!!!!!vote out dbc and dcc.....bunch of two faced liars.....
the-big-yin
says...
1:34pm Mon 30 Jan 12
Steeleye wrote:forgot to mention.....
the-big-yin wrote:I know quite a few ex public sector workers who were nowhere near retirement age and who were made compulsorily redundant but I can see from your vitriolic comments that there is little point in trying to convince you.
Steeleye wrote:i they dig out the workers near pension age and make those redundant!!!and keep the bone idle council workers who stand about doing nothing all day...the quality of the work is absolutely crap!!!
the-big-yin wrote:Guaranteed a job for life? I think that you mustn't have been reading the papers or watching the news recently. Redundancies from the public sector have been outsrippting those from the private sector for over a year now.
my quote!!!!!
my little ditty!!!
employed by the council
you-ll have no strife..
your guaranteed a job for life...
we pay for your pension..
we pay for you all the way....
but do not worry...
your labour led council will be voted out one day!!!!!!
thank you its a bit basic but did not want to put any swear words into it!!!!!!
no wonder this country is going down the pan!!!!!75% of the council workers are useless at their jobs....you only see them when they come out of the cafes and chip shops....oh!! and when they pull out of their hiding places in picnic areas and woods and laybys....you all kanow who you are!!!!!!!!vote out dbc and dcc.....bunch of two faced liars.....
it always seems to be public sector workers who complain all the time...not us who have to go out and earn a proper wage from a proper job.....
Steeleye
says...
6:23pm Mon 30 Jan 12
johnny_p wrote:And tell me, if all public sector workers (skilled or unskilled) pulled out of their pension funds, who would pay for the massive increase in the benefits bill because they are no longer saving towards their retirement like the majority of the private sector?
Steeleye wrote:But of course, if I decide that I am paying too much tax, or paying too much council tax I still have a choice. I can move to another local authority area, or even to another country. A country where I would pay far less in taxes; a place where far fewer people are employed in the public sector.
johnny_p wrote:You still have to buy food from somewhere, the same way that you have to pay taxes. You will be contributing to somneone's pension in the end. You could choose to move and pay to another local authority's pension fund or emigrate and pay towards the pensions of civil servants in another country. All these are choices. However, public servants cannot choose the way in which their services are funded. They cannot choose to stop charging taxes and sell cars or make widgets instead.
Steeleye wrote:Again- yes correct. But I can CHOOSE where I buy my groceries from. If Sainsbury's ran their pension scheme inefficiently their groceries would be too expensive. Or the quality of their produce would be poor. Nobody would shop there. They would go out of business.
johnny_p wrote:So you buy it from Sainsbury's and you end up contributing to the Sainsbury pension fund.
Steeleye wrote:But I have a choice where I buy my groceries from.
Just 3 things to say to add to the debate:
1. Every time you buy a box of soap powder from the supermarket, a significant proportion of the price you pay is contributing to the Tesco pension scheme, the Proctor and Gamble pension scheme, the transport company's pension scheme and everyone else's pension scheme in the supply chain.
2. Westminster is always going to have a cheaper band D council tax as a significant proportion of the properties in its area will be in band H. Something like 90% of the properties in the north east are in band A so councils in this region have to set a correspondingly higher tax to raise the same amount of income as Westminster. Its called the tax base.
3. I would like to share a quote from the independent review of public sector pensions commissioned by THIS Government.
"The Commission firmly rejected the claim that current public service pensions are ‘gold plated.’ The average pension paid to pensioner members is around £7,800 per year,
while the median payment is around £5,600."
Thank you.
I don't have any choice at all about the number of people in the public sector who fund their wages and pension from my earnings.
I don't have that choice with public sector workers. There are too many of them. They pay themselves too much. It doesn't matter if they perform badly. They are un-sackable. They don't earn any money for me, but take my tax money to fund their lifestyle.
Can you understand that Steeleye?
Pensions for public sector employees are a saving in the long run. As the Hutton Rview points out, if all public sector employees pulled out of their pension schemes, the welfare bill would increase massively as they would claim more pension and benefits from the state when they retire.
As a skilled private sector worker I have this choice. And tell me- if everyone like myself decides to leave the UK, who then will fund public sector wages and pensions?
linda. j
says...
9:38pm Tue 31 Jan 12
linda. j
says...
9:39pm Tue 31 Jan 12
Steeleye
says...
10:57pm Tue 31 Jan 12
D D Coy says...
12:09pm Wed 25 Jan 12
"When is the electorate going to wake-up?"