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Terrorism laws used on train spotters

10:13am Wednesday 7th January 2009

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THOUSANDS of train spotters are being quizzed as potential terrorists at railway stations across the region, it was revealed yesterday.

Police are accusing enthusiasts of carrying out reconnaissance for a terror attack when they are simply noting down serial numbers and taking photographs of carriages, the Liberal Democrats claimed.

A total of 7,031 people were questioned under antiterrorism powers in 12 months at railway stations in the North-East, according to official figures.

Another 4,039 were targeted using separate “stop and search” (or reasonable grounds) legislation, a further 2,155 under “stop and account”

laws, and 32 using the Criminal Justice Act – taking the total to 13,257.

Last night, Lib Dem transport spokesman Norman Baker condemned the crackdown as “a worrying sign that we are sliding towards a police state”.

Across the country, British Transport Police quizzed nearly 160,000 people on railway property in the year to last September, including more than 60,000 as potential terrorists.

Mr Baker said: “While it is important to be vigilant about the threat of terrorism to the transport network, the sheer scale of the number of people stopped by police on railway property is ridiculous.

“The anti-terror laws allow officers to stop people for taking photographs, and I know this has led to innocent train spotters being stopped.

“Train spotting may be an activity of limited, and indeed questionable, appeal, but it is not a criminal offence and it is not a terrorist threat.”

Section 44 of the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2000 gives police the power to search any person in any area designated by the Home Secretary, including railway stations.

The Act was deployed against 82-year-old Walter Wolfgang when he made an anti-war protest during the Labour Party conference in 2005.

People can also be stopped under the 1984 Police and Criminal Evidence Act – if there are reasonable grounds to suspect unlawful possession of items – under “stop and account” laws, and searched for weapons under the 1994 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act.

British Transport Police were unable to give Mr Baker specific figures for the numbers of railway enthusiasts included in the statistics.

Instead, Chief Constable Ian Johnston said that “clear guidance” had been issued to officers “in response to the increased concern among some railway enthusiasts”.

Recently, Philip Haigh, the business editor of Rail magazine, described the bullying of train spotters on railway platforms as “a problem that doesn’t ever seem to go away”.

He said: “We get complaints from railway photographers all the time that they are told to stop what they are doing, mainly by railway staff but also by the police.

“It usually results in an apologetic letter from a rail company.”

Train spotter 'terrorists'

Terrorism Act 7,031
Stop and account 2,155
Reasonable grounds 4,039
Criminal Justice Act 32
TOTAL 13,257


Your Say YourThe Northern Echo

J.Moffatt, chilton says...
1:00pm Wed 7 Jan 09

Considering the IRA cowards no longer bomb us what is the justification of stopping white people,train spotting.Every terrorist I have seen on tv are non-white,muslems with beards which make them look like there heads are upside down.But our pc police no longer use common sense and only go after law abiding easy targets.One only has to go back to the Danish cartoon rallies in comparison to to Countryside Alliance rallies to see where our police priorities lie.

JS2, Co Durham says...
5:17pm Wed 7 Jan 09

Remember what happened to the English plane spotters in Greece, they were arrested and are lucky they still aren't in a real jail rather than a British holiday camp. And I don't suppose the Spanish Police or French Police, who have had terrorists attacks on trains that have killed many, will ignore anyone acting suspiciously either or be as nice. And many terrorists are white and British including islamic terrorists.

Big Dave, Darlington says...
6:01pm Wed 7 Jan 09

Surely you're reading the wrong paper with those views Moffat...dunno if the express allows readers to post rants on the web though so we may be stuck with you. Can you give a reasonable example where Police have ignored a criminal and arrested a "law abiding easy target" instead?

HESMITH, Spennymoor says...
6:53pm Wed 7 Jan 09

As I recall the last white guy to terrorise the people of London with a bomb was David Copeland, who belonged to the BNP.

Whilst until Copeland's arrestm responibility for his murders were claimed by the "White Wolves" which is composed of BNP members and supporters.

J.Moffatt, chilton says...
8:23pm Wed 7 Jan 09

HESmith clearly cannot recall 7/7 or 21/7 who were all from allah's peace brigade. Big Dave newspapers are full of law abiding citizens who when facing up to criminals are the ones the police prosecute whilst letting the thugs go.Also we still? live in a democracy so free speech is still allowed.(but not for long)

Big Dave, Darlington says...
8:30pm Wed 7 Jan 09

You still haven't given an example though Moffatt. In each case where someone is protrayed as an "innocent, law abiding member of the public", they've taken the law into their own hands and committed an offence. Quite how we've jumped from your racial stereotyping to this argument isn't clear but not everyone committing terrorist atrocities looks Arabic, even those purporting to be Muslim

Jolly Roger, Co Durham says...
10:25pm Wed 7 Jan 09

Well way do the police stop and search trainspotters I'll never know, why well don't the trains have to run to a time table and you can pick them up easily.

So if some one wanted to blow up a train it is easy get a time table.

But seriously why do the transport police not get at those who break the law by not buying tickets getting killed on the lines - but we are becoming a police state in all but name.

HESMITH, Spennymoor says...
11:47pm Wed 7 Jan 09

You said "Every terrorist I have seen on tv are non-white"

As I recall all those involved in 7/7 or 21/7 were non-white. If you know that one or more were white then you've disproven your own arguement.

But the point I was making was that
David Copeland is white, a terrorist, a former member of the BNP, who murders were claimed by other white members of the BNP. Groups like the white wolves, Blood and Honour, still exist, their threat still remains.

big arnie, Darlo says...
12:55pm Thu 8 Jan 09

Rather than arresting train spotters, couldn't they just be punched squarely in the face and told to get out more to discover beer and girls?

Nick Scott, Durham says...
2:29pm Thu 8 Jan 09

You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to realise that terrorists lurk in mosques, Qu'ran in hand, not on the station platform, notebook in hand....

Big Dave, Darlington says...
6:54pm Thu 8 Jan 09

The example given by HESmith of David Copeland wouldn't really be hanging out in a mosque though would he?

Nick Scott, Durham says...
8:28pm Thu 8 Jan 09

No, admittedly he wouldn't, neither would any non-Muslim terrorists. But the ones that have actually been successful in recent years would, wouldn't they? Sadly the PC world we live in prevents us from looking for bombers in the most obvious place for fear of being called racist.

You sound like a policeman, Big Dave?

J.Moffatt, chilton says...
10:18pm Thu 8 Jan 09

Nick I think you are correct about pc big Dave.Also Dave you asked for a case regarding the pc police prosecuting easy law abiding citizens.Well what about Susan Holdsworth the innocent baby sitter tried for murdering a child when no crime was even committed.And the arogant police wont even say sorry.(Had Susan been black or gay you could bet your last quid they would be saying sorry and having an enquiry.)

Big Dave, Darlington says...
7:02pm Fri 9 Jan 09

If you read the piece from the Chief of Cleveland about why they won't apologise,I think it makes sense. The police didn't convict her the first time, neither did the CPS. They presented evidence to a jury and on the basis of that evidence and the events in court, the jury convicted her.

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