Police boss blames welfare reforms for 35% increase in shoplifting claiming cuts victims are 'stealing to survive'

Durham Police and Crime Commissioner Ron Hogg

Durham Police and Crime Commissioner Ron Hogg

First published in News
Last updated
The Northern Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Reporter (Durham)

A POLICE commissioner has blamed the Government’s welfare reforms for a 35 per cent jump in shoplifting, claiming thieves are “stealing to live”.

Ron Hogg, Labour Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) for Durham, said usually law-abiding people were turning to crime because they were unable to feed themselves – and blamed the Coalition’s benefit changes, including the so-called bedroom tax.

Mr Hogg admitted there was no evidence of a direct link but said: “Shoplifting is up 35 per cent year on year and an awful lot of people are stealing to live.”

He added: “We predicted this tax would cause massive problems for some of the most vulnerable in our society.

“With more welfare reform yet to be implemented the situation will only get worse.”

Mr Hogg’s claims were supported by Barry Coppinger, Labour PCC for Cleveland, where there has been a 7.3 per cent rise in shoplifting.

He said: “Deep and relentless welfare reforms have a knock-on effect on other crimes, particularly shoplifting, as families turn to the black market to buy food and other items they can’t afford in the shops.”

The Conservative Party referred enquiries to the Home Office, which said it was a matter for the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), where a spokesman said there was absolutely no evidence linking welfare reforms to increased crime.

He said the reforms were guaranteeing a strong welfare net and £345m had been given to councils to help the most vulnerable.

“Ending the spare room subsidy was absolutely necessary in order to get the soaring housing benefit bill under control, returning fairness to the system and making better use of social housing stock.

“These rules already applied to the housing benefit claimants in the private sector – introduced by the previous Government.”

Rebecca Coulson, the prospective Tory parliamentary candidate for Durham City, said: "It's never sensible to make excuses for criminal behaviour, or to imply that shoplifting is acceptable.

"We all still live in straitened times, following the recession, but the Conservative long term economic plan is working."

A recent DWP report found 522,905 households were affected by the so-called bedroom tax by last August and nearly a fifth of claimants had registered an interest in downsizing.

More than half of claimants had cut back on household essentials, a quarter had borrowed money and three per cent had taken pay day loans.

Mr Hogg and Mr Coppinger advised people to use credit unions.

In Durham, about 100 female shoplifters have avoided being charged by sitting a life issues course.

Comments (46)

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7:09am Thu 7 Aug 14

laboursfoe says...

Yes Ron, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the 'get out of jail' card that you offered shoplifters and thieves earlier this year!!!!!
Yes Ron, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the 'get out of jail' card that you offered shoplifters and thieves earlier this year!!!!! laboursfoe
  • Score: 32

7:25am Thu 7 Aug 14

hasanopinion says...

Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household?
Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household? hasanopinion
  • Score: -9

8:48am Thu 7 Aug 14

Jonn says...

laboursfoe wrote:
Yes Ron, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the 'get out of jail' card that you offered shoplifters and thieves earlier this year!!!!!
Of course, all shoplifters should be jailed, at the cost of 40k per year to house each prisoner. It's only 'hardworking taxpayers' money.
[quote][p][bold]laboursfoe[/bold] wrote: Yes Ron, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the 'get out of jail' card that you offered shoplifters and thieves earlier this year!!!!![/p][/quote]Of course, all shoplifters should be jailed, at the cost of 40k per year to house each prisoner. It's only 'hardworking taxpayers' money. Jonn
  • Score: 21

8:51am Thu 7 Aug 14

Jonn says...

hasanopinion wrote:
Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household?
Really? You've been reading the Daily Mail again, haven't you.
[quote][p][bold]hasanopinion[/bold] wrote: Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household?[/p][/quote]Really? You've been reading the Daily Mail again, haven't you. Jonn
  • Score: 27

9:16am Thu 7 Aug 14

Edmondsley says...

"Mr Hogg admitted there was no evidence of a direct link".So why is a police commisioner and ex police officer making allegations without any evidence?Could politics be the motivator?
"Mr Hogg admitted there was no evidence of a direct link".So why is a police commisioner and ex police officer making allegations without any evidence?Could politics be the motivator? Edmondsley
  • Score: 26

9:24am Thu 7 Aug 14

hasanopinion says...

Jonn wrote:
hasanopinion wrote:
Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household?
Really? You've been reading the Daily Mail again, haven't you.
Since I pay council tax and rent with absolutely no help from the benefits system get no cold weather hand outs or healthy living vouchers. I dont get free eye tests dental treatment or prescriptions. I pay for my children's school meals, trips and uniforms. Knowing I have been on both sides of the benefits line all be it for a short period. Knowing how much surplus cash I had every week and how little I have now. Knowing alot of people on benefits have more money going into their household than mine and less to pay out. Whilst my family and i pay for that too. So The daily mail I do not need as I happen to know what I am talking about. The working class are being screwed over royally!
[quote][p][bold]Jonn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hasanopinion[/bold] wrote: Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household?[/p][/quote]Really? You've been reading the Daily Mail again, haven't you.[/p][/quote]Since I pay council tax and rent with absolutely no help from the benefits system get no cold weather hand outs or healthy living vouchers. I dont get free eye tests dental treatment or prescriptions. I pay for my children's school meals, trips and uniforms. Knowing I have been on both sides of the benefits line all be it for a short period. Knowing how much surplus cash I had every week and how little I have now. Knowing alot of people on benefits have more money going into their household than mine and less to pay out. Whilst my family and i pay for that too. So The daily mail I do not need as I happen to know what I am talking about. The working class are being screwed over royally! hasanopinion
  • Score: 25

10:03am Thu 7 Aug 14

theWorkerScum says...

Hmm, could always get a job. Crazy.
Hmm, could always get a job. Crazy. theWorkerScum
  • Score: 3

10:21am Thu 7 Aug 14

DURHAM CITY says...

Oh well thats ok then ? my god get a grip fool
Oh well thats ok then ? my god get a grip fool DURHAM CITY
  • Score: 4

10:50am Thu 7 Aug 14

darloboss says...

Jonn wrote:
hasanopinion wrote:
Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household?
Really? You've been reading the Daily Mail again, haven't you.
might be news to you mr hogg but apart from yourselves and mp' s the only other people to have an regular pay rise are those on benifits
[quote][p][bold]Jonn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hasanopinion[/bold] wrote: Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household?[/p][/quote]Really? You've been reading the Daily Mail again, haven't you.[/p][/quote]might be news to you mr hogg but apart from yourselves and mp' s the only other people to have an regular pay rise are those on benifits darloboss
  • Score: 3

11:49am Thu 7 Aug 14

David Lacey says...

What's up boss? Another one that gets a big thumbs up from me. Incidentally I hope you included pensioners (like me) in that statement.
What's up boss? Another one that gets a big thumbs up from me. Incidentally I hope you included pensioners (like me) in that statement. David Lacey
  • Score: 6

2:43pm Thu 7 Aug 14

pompeyfaith says...

Aggravated crime where the DWP have a lot to answer for
Aggravated crime where the DWP have a lot to answer for pompeyfaith
  • Score: 2

2:55pm Thu 7 Aug 14

pompeyfaith says...

All those attacking benefit claimants remember this, many of you are attacking yourselves as more gets paid to those on in-work benefits than those out of work and furthermore everyone is a tax payer with in or out of work, indeed taxation no one escapes it.

Those on benefits or rather Social Security its real name are not the money hoarders they are the spenders which help the economy and in turn making a return to the treasury in taxes.

You are all being fooled by Govt baloney and falling for it hook,line and sinker
All those attacking benefit claimants remember this, many of you are attacking yourselves as more gets paid to those on in-work benefits than those out of work and furthermore everyone is a tax payer with in or out of work, indeed taxation no one escapes it. Those on benefits or rather Social Security its real name are not the money hoarders they are the spenders which help the economy and in turn making a return to the treasury in taxes. You are all being fooled by Govt baloney and falling for it hook,line and sinker pompeyfaith
  • Score: 23

3:07pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Guy Smithy says...

Shock horror! Labour-ticket Police Commissioner - effectively a Labour politician - criticises Conservative government.
Shock horror! Labour-ticket Police Commissioner - effectively a Labour politician - criticises Conservative government. Guy Smithy
  • Score: 6

3:25pm Thu 7 Aug 14

darloboss says...

David Lacey wrote:
What's up boss? Another one that gets a big thumbs up from me. Incidentally I hope you included pensioners (like me) in that statement.
old biddys included david
[quote][p][bold]David Lacey[/bold] wrote: What's up boss? Another one that gets a big thumbs up from me. Incidentally I hope you included pensioners (like me) in that statement.[/p][/quote]old biddys included david darloboss
  • Score: 0

3:41pm Thu 7 Aug 14

mark r says...

has the shoplifting gone up 35% year on year got anything to do with the open border policy labour signed up to ? or possibly the influx of eastern european immigrants ?
has the shoplifting gone up 35% year on year got anything to do with the open border policy labour signed up to ? or possibly the influx of eastern european immigrants ? mark r
  • Score: 18

3:43pm Thu 7 Aug 14

hasanopinion says...

pompeyfaith wrote:
All those attacking benefit claimants remember this, many of you are attacking yourselves as more gets paid to those on in-work benefits than those out of work and furthermore everyone is a tax payer with in or out of work, indeed taxation no one escapes it.

Those on benefits or rather Social Security its real name are not the money hoarders they are the spenders which help the economy and in turn making a return to the treasury in taxes.

You are all being fooled by Govt baloney and falling for it hook,line and sinker
I dont attack benefit claimants at all far from it. The benefits agency is there for a reason and when my husband and I broke up and I was only working part time my children and I could not have survived without it. But the fact that I was better off having my rent and council tax paid. For a period my children recieved free school meals. Uniforms and school trips were free as was eye test dental treatment and prescriptions. I was able to live comfortably and save for a rainy day. Now I get nothing and that rainy day has been and gone. I am money savvy my bills are paid ontime and even early. I work dam hard and wouldn't have it any other way but I do feel that I am penalised for the fact. For which I blame the government not the claimant because they are the ones who created the mess our country has become.
[quote][p][bold]pompeyfaith[/bold] wrote: All those attacking benefit claimants remember this, many of you are attacking yourselves as more gets paid to those on in-work benefits than those out of work and furthermore everyone is a tax payer with in or out of work, indeed taxation no one escapes it. Those on benefits or rather Social Security its real name are not the money hoarders they are the spenders which help the economy and in turn making a return to the treasury in taxes. You are all being fooled by Govt baloney and falling for it hook,line and sinker[/p][/quote]I dont attack benefit claimants at all far from it. The benefits agency is there for a reason and when my husband and I broke up and I was only working part time my children and I could not have survived without it. But the fact that I was better off having my rent and council tax paid. For a period my children recieved free school meals. Uniforms and school trips were free as was eye test dental treatment and prescriptions. I was able to live comfortably and save for a rainy day. Now I get nothing and that rainy day has been and gone. I am money savvy my bills are paid ontime and even early. I work dam hard and wouldn't have it any other way but I do feel that I am penalised for the fact. For which I blame the government not the claimant because they are the ones who created the mess our country has become. hasanopinion
  • Score: 14

4:39pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Got Ya says...

hasanopinion wrote:
pompeyfaith wrote:
All those attacking benefit claimants remember this, many of you are attacking yourselves as more gets paid to those on in-work benefits than those out of work and furthermore everyone is a tax payer with in or out of work, indeed taxation no one escapes it.

Those on benefits or rather Social Security its real name are not the money hoarders they are the spenders which help the economy and in turn making a return to the treasury in taxes.

You are all being fooled by Govt baloney and falling for it hook,line and sinker
I dont attack benefit claimants at all far from it. The benefits agency is there for a reason and when my husband and I broke up and I was only working part time my children and I could not have survived without it. But the fact that I was better off having my rent and council tax paid. For a period my children recieved free school meals. Uniforms and school trips were free as was eye test dental treatment and prescriptions. I was able to live comfortably and save for a rainy day. Now I get nothing and that rainy day has been and gone. I am money savvy my bills are paid ontime and even early. I work dam hard and wouldn't have it any other way but I do feel that I am penalised for the fact. For which I blame the government not the claimant because they are the ones who created the mess our country has become.
No wonder your husband cleared off!
[quote][p][bold]hasanopinion[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pompeyfaith[/bold] wrote: All those attacking benefit claimants remember this, many of you are attacking yourselves as more gets paid to those on in-work benefits than those out of work and furthermore everyone is a tax payer with in or out of work, indeed taxation no one escapes it. Those on benefits or rather Social Security its real name are not the money hoarders they are the spenders which help the economy and in turn making a return to the treasury in taxes. You are all being fooled by Govt baloney and falling for it hook,line and sinker[/p][/quote]I dont attack benefit claimants at all far from it. The benefits agency is there for a reason and when my husband and I broke up and I was only working part time my children and I could not have survived without it. But the fact that I was better off having my rent and council tax paid. For a period my children recieved free school meals. Uniforms and school trips were free as was eye test dental treatment and prescriptions. I was able to live comfortably and save for a rainy day. Now I get nothing and that rainy day has been and gone. I am money savvy my bills are paid ontime and even early. I work dam hard and wouldn't have it any other way but I do feel that I am penalised for the fact. For which I blame the government not the claimant because they are the ones who created the mess our country has become.[/p][/quote]No wonder your husband cleared off! Got Ya
  • Score: -15

4:56pm Thu 7 Aug 14

theWorkerScum says...

Got Ya wrote:
hasanopinion wrote:
pompeyfaith wrote:
All those attacking benefit claimants remember this, many of you are attacking yourselves as more gets paid to those on in-work benefits than those out of work and furthermore everyone is a tax payer with in or out of work, indeed taxation no one escapes it.

Those on benefits or rather Social Security its real name are not the money hoarders they are the spenders which help the economy and in turn making a return to the treasury in taxes.

You are all being fooled by Govt baloney and falling for it hook,line and sinker
I dont attack benefit claimants at all far from it. The benefits agency is there for a reason and when my husband and I broke up and I was only working part time my children and I could not have survived without it. But the fact that I was better off having my rent and council tax paid. For a period my children recieved free school meals. Uniforms and school trips were free as was eye test dental treatment and prescriptions. I was able to live comfortably and save for a rainy day. Now I get nothing and that rainy day has been and gone. I am money savvy my bills are paid ontime and even early. I work dam hard and wouldn't have it any other way but I do feel that I am penalised for the fact. For which I blame the government not the claimant because they are the ones who created the mess our country has become.
No wonder your husband cleared off!
'Got Ya' - Judging from your statement, I'm sure she is doing better than you. idiot.
[quote][p][bold]Got Ya[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hasanopinion[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pompeyfaith[/bold] wrote: All those attacking benefit claimants remember this, many of you are attacking yourselves as more gets paid to those on in-work benefits than those out of work and furthermore everyone is a tax payer with in or out of work, indeed taxation no one escapes it. Those on benefits or rather Social Security its real name are not the money hoarders they are the spenders which help the economy and in turn making a return to the treasury in taxes. You are all being fooled by Govt baloney and falling for it hook,line and sinker[/p][/quote]I dont attack benefit claimants at all far from it. The benefits agency is there for a reason and when my husband and I broke up and I was only working part time my children and I could not have survived without it. But the fact that I was better off having my rent and council tax paid. For a period my children recieved free school meals. Uniforms and school trips were free as was eye test dental treatment and prescriptions. I was able to live comfortably and save for a rainy day. Now I get nothing and that rainy day has been and gone. I am money savvy my bills are paid ontime and even early. I work dam hard and wouldn't have it any other way but I do feel that I am penalised for the fact. For which I blame the government not the claimant because they are the ones who created the mess our country has become.[/p][/quote]No wonder your husband cleared off![/p][/quote]'Got Ya' - Judging from your statement, I'm sure she is doing better than you. idiot. theWorkerScum
  • Score: 11

5:32pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Jonn says...

David Lacey wrote:
What's up boss? Another one that gets a big thumbs up from me. Incidentally I hope you included pensioners (like me) in that statement.
Pensioners are far and above the biggest spend of the Welfare Budget.
[quote][p][bold]David Lacey[/bold] wrote: What's up boss? Another one that gets a big thumbs up from me. Incidentally I hope you included pensioners (like me) in that statement.[/p][/quote]Pensioners are far and above the biggest spend of the Welfare Budget. Jonn
  • Score: 12

5:40pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Jonn says...

darloboss wrote:
Jonn wrote:
hasanopinion wrote:
Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household?
Really? You've been reading the Daily Mail again, haven't you.
might be news to you mr hogg but apart from yourselves and mp' s the only other people to have an regular pay rise are those on benifits
Wrong! Benefits are annually 1% which is actually a 'pay' fall when the current interest rates are considered.
Try and get your facts right.
[quote][p][bold]darloboss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jonn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hasanopinion[/bold] wrote: Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household?[/p][/quote]Really? You've been reading the Daily Mail again, haven't you.[/p][/quote]might be news to you mr hogg but apart from yourselves and mp' s the only other people to have an regular pay rise are those on benifits[/p][/quote]Wrong! Benefits are annually 1% which is actually a 'pay' fall when the current interest rates are considered. Try and get your facts right. Jonn
  • Score: 12

5:41pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Got Ya says...

theWorkerScum wrote:
Hmm, could always get a job. Crazy.
Oh dear, I bet you've never worked in your life judging by the amount of time you spend on here criticising others.......lol when you throw you toys out of the pram over this one.
[quote][p][bold]theWorkerScum[/bold] wrote: Hmm, could always get a job. Crazy.[/p][/quote]Oh dear, I bet you've never worked in your life judging by the amount of time you spend on here criticising others.......lol when you throw you toys out of the pram over this one. Got Ya
  • Score: -3

5:55pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Jonn says...

hasanopinion wrote:
Jonn wrote:
hasanopinion wrote:
Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household?
Really? You've been reading the Daily Mail again, haven't you.
Since I pay council tax and rent with absolutely no help from the benefits system get no cold weather hand outs or healthy living vouchers. I dont get free eye tests dental treatment or prescriptions. I pay for my children's school meals, trips and uniforms. Knowing I have been on both sides of the benefits line all be it for a short period. Knowing how much surplus cash I had every week and how little I have now. Knowing alot of people on benefits have more money going into their household than mine and less to pay out. Whilst my family and i pay for that too. So The daily mail I do not need as I happen to know what I am talking about. The working class are being screwed over royally!
Which 'working class' are you talking about? Just the working class who don't claim any benefits at all? I wonder how many there are of them! There are now more people IN WORK and claiming benefits than those out of work.
It was ok for you to claim benefits but then you judge others who may be just in the same position as you were.
[quote][p][bold]hasanopinion[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jonn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hasanopinion[/bold] wrote: Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household?[/p][/quote]Really? You've been reading the Daily Mail again, haven't you.[/p][/quote]Since I pay council tax and rent with absolutely no help from the benefits system get no cold weather hand outs or healthy living vouchers. I dont get free eye tests dental treatment or prescriptions. I pay for my children's school meals, trips and uniforms. Knowing I have been on both sides of the benefits line all be it for a short period. Knowing how much surplus cash I had every week and how little I have now. Knowing alot of people on benefits have more money going into their household than mine and less to pay out. Whilst my family and i pay for that too. So The daily mail I do not need as I happen to know what I am talking about. The working class are being screwed over royally![/p][/quote]Which 'working class' are you talking about? Just the working class who don't claim any benefits at all? I wonder how many there are of them! There are now more people IN WORK and claiming benefits than those out of work. It was ok for you to claim benefits but then you judge others who may be just in the same position as you were. Jonn
  • Score: 11

6:02pm Thu 7 Aug 14

darloboss says...

Jonn wrote:
darloboss wrote:
Jonn wrote:
hasanopinion wrote:
Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household?
Really? You've been reading the Daily Mail again, haven't you.
might be news to you mr hogg but apart from yourselves and mp' s the only other people to have an regular pay rise are those on benifits
Wrong! Benefits are annually 1% which is actually a 'pay' fall when the current interest rates are considered.
Try and get your facts right.
so as i havnt had a rise in 8 years what does that make me ? yes a fool for working
[quote][p][bold]Jonn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]darloboss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jonn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hasanopinion[/bold] wrote: Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household?[/p][/quote]Really? You've been reading the Daily Mail again, haven't you.[/p][/quote]might be news to you mr hogg but apart from yourselves and mp' s the only other people to have an regular pay rise are those on benifits[/p][/quote]Wrong! Benefits are annually 1% which is actually a 'pay' fall when the current interest rates are considered. Try and get your facts right.[/p][/quote]so as i havnt had a rise in 8 years what does that make me ? yes a fool for working darloboss
  • Score: 2

6:19pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Jonn says...

theWorkerScum wrote:
Hmm, could always get a job. Crazy.
There are 2.2 million unemployed 'alledgedly' and 500,000 job 'vacancies' alledgedly. Doesn't quite fit, does it?
Underemployment is also at it's highest for years and those classed as economically inactive is nearly 1 million more than in 2010.
Simply 'getting a job' isn't quite as easy as you so flippantly put it.
[quote][p][bold]theWorkerScum[/bold] wrote: Hmm, could always get a job. Crazy.[/p][/quote]There are 2.2 million unemployed 'alledgedly' and 500,000 job 'vacancies' alledgedly. Doesn't quite fit, does it? Underemployment is also at it's highest for years and those classed as economically inactive is nearly 1 million more than in 2010. Simply 'getting a job' isn't quite as easy as you so flippantly put it. Jonn
  • Score: 11

6:23pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Risk555 says...

Utter tosh. The majority of shoplifting is commited by drug addicts to feed their habits. Or immigrant crime gangs.

More cr@p from the police/judges/MPs being apologists for 'non-serious' crimes.
Utter tosh. The majority of shoplifting is commited by drug addicts to feed their habits. Or immigrant crime gangs. More cr@p from the police/judges/MPs being apologists for 'non-serious' crimes. Risk555
  • Score: 17

6:35pm Thu 7 Aug 14

stevegg says...

Most prolific shop lifters steal to generate drug money - not to survive, especially the prolific ones. There is no deterrant as most get meaningless consequences, even after a 100 convictions, and dont care if they get caught as they will be back out within 24 hours at most, to continue to do the same thing. Its the justice system thats at fault which is ridiculously soft on criminals. Serious consequences should srtart after the 3rd offence - not the 100th! To much emphasis placed on rehabilitation and not enough on punishment.
Most prolific shop lifters steal to generate drug money - not to survive, especially the prolific ones. There is no deterrant as most get meaningless consequences, even after a 100 convictions, and dont care if they get caught as they will be back out within 24 hours at most, to continue to do the same thing. Its the justice system thats at fault which is ridiculously soft on criminals. Serious consequences should srtart after the 3rd offence - not the 100th! To much emphasis placed on rehabilitation and not enough on punishment. stevegg
  • Score: 19

8:26pm Thu 7 Aug 14

DURHAM CITY says...

stevegg wrote:
Most prolific shop lifters steal to generate drug money - not to survive, especially the prolific ones. There is no deterrant as most get meaningless consequences, even after a 100 convictions, and dont care if they get caught as they will be back out within 24 hours at most, to continue to do the same thing. Its the justice system thats at fault which is ridiculously soft on criminals. Serious consequences should srtart after the 3rd offence - not the 100th! To much emphasis placed on rehabilitation and not enough on punishment.
I could not agree more well said
[quote][p][bold]stevegg[/bold] wrote: Most prolific shop lifters steal to generate drug money - not to survive, especially the prolific ones. There is no deterrant as most get meaningless consequences, even after a 100 convictions, and dont care if they get caught as they will be back out within 24 hours at most, to continue to do the same thing. Its the justice system thats at fault which is ridiculously soft on criminals. Serious consequences should srtart after the 3rd offence - not the 100th! To much emphasis placed on rehabilitation and not enough on punishment.[/p][/quote]I could not agree more well said DURHAM CITY
  • Score: 14

8:27pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Jonn says...

darloboss wrote:
Jonn wrote:
darloboss wrote:
Jonn wrote:
hasanopinion wrote:
Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household?
Really? You've been reading the Daily Mail again, haven't you.
might be news to you mr hogg but apart from yourselves and mp' s the only other people to have an regular pay rise are those on benifits
Wrong! Benefits are annually 1% which is actually a 'pay' fall when the current interest rates are considered.
Try and get your facts right.
so as i havnt had a rise in 8 years what does that make me ? yes a fool for working
It's not the fault of the unemployed or the millions of low paid workers who have to claim benefits that you are earning exactly the same as you were 8 years ago. Have a word with your employer or get a better paid job.
Stop looking down to blame your circumstances, look up.
[quote][p][bold]darloboss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jonn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]darloboss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jonn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hasanopinion[/bold] wrote: Why is it if welfare reforms have reduced the income of people on benefits yet they still continue to be better off than the working household?[/p][/quote]Really? You've been reading the Daily Mail again, haven't you.[/p][/quote]might be news to you mr hogg but apart from yourselves and mp' s the only other people to have an regular pay rise are those on benifits[/p][/quote]Wrong! Benefits are annually 1% which is actually a 'pay' fall when the current interest rates are considered. Try and get your facts right.[/p][/quote]so as i havnt had a rise in 8 years what does that make me ? yes a fool for working[/p][/quote]It's not the fault of the unemployed or the millions of low paid workers who have to claim benefits that you are earning exactly the same as you were 8 years ago. Have a word with your employer or get a better paid job. Stop looking down to blame your circumstances, look up. Jonn
  • Score: 10

8:40pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Jonn says...

stevegg wrote:
Most prolific shop lifters steal to generate drug money - not to survive, especially the prolific ones. There is no deterrant as most get meaningless consequences, even after a 100 convictions, and dont care if they get caught as they will be back out within 24 hours at most, to continue to do the same thing. Its the justice system thats at fault which is ridiculously soft on criminals. Serious consequences should srtart after the 3rd offence - not the 100th! To much emphasis placed on rehabilitation and not enough on punishment.
And what do these prolific drug taking shoplifters do with their 'goods'?
Do they give their stolen cheddar cheese to dealers in exchange for drugs? No, they sell them on the black market, a huge black market caused by 'austerity' or to give it it's proper name, a redistribution of wealth to the rich.
Seeing as though most prisoners are re-offenders, locking them up doesn't seem to be working either. Rehabilitation does work, if done properly.
[quote][p][bold]stevegg[/bold] wrote: Most prolific shop lifters steal to generate drug money - not to survive, especially the prolific ones. There is no deterrant as most get meaningless consequences, even after a 100 convictions, and dont care if they get caught as they will be back out within 24 hours at most, to continue to do the same thing. Its the justice system thats at fault which is ridiculously soft on criminals. Serious consequences should srtart after the 3rd offence - not the 100th! To much emphasis placed on rehabilitation and not enough on punishment.[/p][/quote]And what do these prolific drug taking shoplifters do with their 'goods'? Do they give their stolen cheddar cheese to dealers in exchange for drugs? No, they sell them on the black market, a huge black market caused by 'austerity' or to give it it's proper name, a redistribution of wealth to the rich. Seeing as though most prisoners are re-offenders, locking them up doesn't seem to be working either. Rehabilitation does work, if done properly. Jonn
  • Score: 1

8:52pm Thu 7 Aug 14

spragger says...

Labour politician acts as an apologist for greedy criminals
Nothing new there then

Remember MacShane, Moran, Chaytor, Morley, Illsley & Devine
Do you see it?
Labour politician acts as an apologist for greedy criminals Nothing new there then Remember MacShane, Moran, Chaytor, Morley, Illsley & Devine Do you see it? spragger
  • Score: 5

9:19pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Equity1 says...

Why don't Mr Hogg and Mr Coppinger donate some of their vast salary if these people are stealing to live ?let's face it - neither of them will really need the money .They won't have gas and electric on key cards they won't be in arrears with the likes of council tax .Life times of good salary but greed takes over .Shameful .
Why don't Mr Hogg and Mr Coppinger donate some of their vast salary if these people are stealing to live ?let's face it - neither of them will really need the money .They won't have gas and electric on key cards they won't be in arrears with the likes of council tax .Life times of good salary but greed takes over .Shameful . Equity1
  • Score: 6

11:57pm Thu 7 Aug 14

Voice-of-reality says...

Personally, I'd rather see them not survive at all. A welfare state that has changed from being 'an occasional help' to those that had hitherto paid in to one that not only allows welfare dependency but artificially props up an entire sector of the population has much to answer for.
Personally, I'd rather see them not survive at all. A welfare state that has changed from being 'an occasional help' to those that had hitherto paid in to one that not only allows welfare dependency but artificially props up an entire sector of the population has much to answer for. Voice-of-reality
  • Score: -3

7:56am Fri 8 Aug 14

Jonn says...

Voice-of-reality wrote:
Personally, I'd rather see them not survive at all. A welfare state that has changed from being 'an occasional help' to those that had hitherto paid in to one that not only allows welfare dependency but artificially props up an entire sector of the population has much to answer for.
'artifically props up an entire sector of the population'
You could equally apply that statement to the City of London. What do you think Quantatitive Easing and fake interest rates are?
[quote][p][bold]Voice-of-reality[/bold] wrote: Personally, I'd rather see them not survive at all. A welfare state that has changed from being 'an occasional help' to those that had hitherto paid in to one that not only allows welfare dependency but artificially props up an entire sector of the population has much to answer for.[/p][/quote]'artifically props up an entire sector of the population' You could equally apply that statement to the City of London. What do you think Quantatitive Easing and fake interest rates are? Jonn
  • Score: 8

12:37pm Fri 8 Aug 14

loan_star says...

Jonn wrote:
Voice-of-reality wrote:
Personally, I'd rather see them not survive at all. A welfare state that has changed from being 'an occasional help' to those that had hitherto paid in to one that not only allows welfare dependency but artificially props up an entire sector of the population has much to answer for.
'artifically props up an entire sector of the population'
You could equally apply that statement to the City of London. What do you think Quantatitive Easing and fake interest rates are?
Difference is that although the actions of the City of London are in part responsible for the austerity, the fact is that these people still pay into the system unlike dole wallers who constantly take.
[quote][p][bold]Jonn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Voice-of-reality[/bold] wrote: Personally, I'd rather see them not survive at all. A welfare state that has changed from being 'an occasional help' to those that had hitherto paid in to one that not only allows welfare dependency but artificially props up an entire sector of the population has much to answer for.[/p][/quote]'artifically props up an entire sector of the population' You could equally apply that statement to the City of London. What do you think Quantatitive Easing and fake interest rates are?[/p][/quote]Difference is that although the actions of the City of London are in part responsible for the austerity, the fact is that these people still pay into the system unlike dole wallers who constantly take. loan_star
  • Score: -5

12:57pm Fri 8 Aug 14

theWorkerScum says...

Jonn wrote:
theWorkerScum wrote:
Hmm, could always get a job. Crazy.
There are 2.2 million unemployed 'alledgedly' and 500,000 job 'vacancies' alledgedly. Doesn't quite fit, does it?
Underemployment is also at it's highest for years and those classed as economically inactive is nearly 1 million more than in 2010.
Simply 'getting a job' isn't quite as easy as you so flippantly put it.
When there is 0 vacancies then you can get on your high horse. Keep being lazy until then.
[quote][p][bold]Jonn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theWorkerScum[/bold] wrote: Hmm, could always get a job. Crazy.[/p][/quote]There are 2.2 million unemployed 'alledgedly' and 500,000 job 'vacancies' alledgedly. Doesn't quite fit, does it? Underemployment is also at it's highest for years and those classed as economically inactive is nearly 1 million more than in 2010. Simply 'getting a job' isn't quite as easy as you so flippantly put it.[/p][/quote]When there is 0 vacancies then you can get on your high horse. Keep being lazy until then. theWorkerScum
  • Score: 1

12:59pm Fri 8 Aug 14

theWorkerScum says...

Got Ya wrote:
theWorkerScum wrote:
Hmm, could always get a job. Crazy.
Oh dear, I bet you've never worked in your life judging by the amount of time you spend on here criticising others.......lol when you throw you toys out of the pram over this one.
errr yeah, er that's right.
[quote][p][bold]Got Ya[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theWorkerScum[/bold] wrote: Hmm, could always get a job. Crazy.[/p][/quote]Oh dear, I bet you've never worked in your life judging by the amount of time you spend on here criticising others.......lol when you throw you toys out of the pram over this one.[/p][/quote]errr yeah, er that's right. theWorkerScum
  • Score: 1

5:48pm Fri 8 Aug 14

behonest says...

Regardless of our personal political views, I'd suggest that Hogg and Coppinger (both Labour) are simply playing politics here, and are out of order for doing so.
As PCCs it is their job to ensure their local police force apprehends criminals and brings them before a court. That's it.
They are entitled to a personal view on causes of crime, as are the rest of us, but they are not paid as politicians and should not be publicly making excuses for criminals.
I suspect they are doing it simply to cover their own backs, for failing to tackle crime rates in their area.
Regardless of our personal political views, I'd suggest that Hogg and Coppinger (both Labour) are simply playing politics here, and are out of order for doing so. As PCCs it is their job to ensure their local police force apprehends criminals and brings them before a court. That's it. They are entitled to a personal view on causes of crime, as are the rest of us, but they are not paid as politicians and should not be publicly making excuses for criminals. I suspect they are doing it simply to cover their own backs, for failing to tackle crime rates in their area. behonest
  • Score: 6

6:25pm Fri 8 Aug 14

Jonn says...

theWorkerScum wrote:
Jonn wrote:
theWorkerScum wrote:
Hmm, could always get a job. Crazy.
There are 2.2 million unemployed 'alledgedly' and 500,000 job 'vacancies' alledgedly. Doesn't quite fit, does it?
Underemployment is also at it's highest for years and those classed as economically inactive is nearly 1 million more than in 2010.
Simply 'getting a job' isn't quite as easy as you so flippantly put it.
When there is 0 vacancies then you can get on your high horse. Keep being lazy until then.
There has never been zero job vacancies.
Capitalism requires unemployment and cyclically creates it to control inflation. But if you want to simply label the unemployed lazy, that's your perogative.
[quote][p][bold]theWorkerScum[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jonn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]theWorkerScum[/bold] wrote: Hmm, could always get a job. Crazy.[/p][/quote]There are 2.2 million unemployed 'alledgedly' and 500,000 job 'vacancies' alledgedly. Doesn't quite fit, does it? Underemployment is also at it's highest for years and those classed as economically inactive is nearly 1 million more than in 2010. Simply 'getting a job' isn't quite as easy as you so flippantly put it.[/p][/quote]When there is 0 vacancies then you can get on your high horse. Keep being lazy until then.[/p][/quote]There has never been zero job vacancies. Capitalism requires unemployment and cyclically creates it to control inflation. But if you want to simply label the unemployed lazy, that's your perogative. Jonn
  • Score: 3

6:28pm Fri 8 Aug 14

Withnail Lefty says...

"Mr Hogg admitted there was no evidence of a link" between welfare reforms and an increase in shoplifting. So, therefore, it is a meaningless statement with no more credence than saying "the increase in shoplifting is a result of the increasing effects of climate change".
It is lazy, unsophisticated political buck passing from people who are, obviously, unsuitable for the job.
"Mr Hogg admitted there was no evidence of a link" between welfare reforms and an increase in shoplifting. So, therefore, it is a meaningless statement with no more credence than saying "the increase in shoplifting is a result of the increasing effects of climate change". It is lazy, unsophisticated political buck passing from people who are, obviously, unsuitable for the job. Withnail Lefty
  • Score: 7

7:03pm Sat 9 Aug 14

LUSTARD says...

DURHAM CITY wrote:
stevegg wrote:
Most prolific shop lifters steal to generate drug money - not to survive, especially the prolific ones. There is no deterrant as most get meaningless consequences, even after a 100 convictions, and dont care if they get caught as they will be back out within 24 hours at most, to continue to do the same thing. Its the justice system thats at fault which is ridiculously soft on criminals. Serious consequences should srtart after the 3rd offence - not the 100th! To much emphasis placed on rehabilitation and not enough on punishment.
I could not agree more well said
funny, this world aint it, your born now landless, have to buy or rent, why, cos the land owners as we know them where given land by the crown for their support and the rest of us work for them thru taxes, are u all thick
[quote][p][bold]DURHAM CITY[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]stevegg[/bold] wrote: Most prolific shop lifters steal to generate drug money - not to survive, especially the prolific ones. There is no deterrant as most get meaningless consequences, even after a 100 convictions, and dont care if they get caught as they will be back out within 24 hours at most, to continue to do the same thing. Its the justice system thats at fault which is ridiculously soft on criminals. Serious consequences should srtart after the 3rd offence - not the 100th! To much emphasis placed on rehabilitation and not enough on punishment.[/p][/quote]I could not agree more well said[/p][/quote]funny, this world aint it, your born now landless, have to buy or rent, why, cos the land owners as we know them where given land by the crown for their support and the rest of us work for them thru taxes, are u all thick LUSTARD
  • Score: 2

12:22pm Mon 11 Aug 14

Homshaw1 says...

Police should arrest and prosecute shoplifters. Benefit cuts and their effects are issues for elected politicians.. If he feels it is an issue he should provide feedback to the Home Office not to the general public. I would have thought a bigger issue was the ridiculously small sentences handed out to convicted criminals. There is no incentive to stop offending. We need more job opportunities, more incentive to work and less tolerance of people who won't work but that isn't the police's job

The police are becoming far too liberal and seem to be unwilling to do what they are paid for.

Stop making excuses and do what you are well paid for.
Police should arrest and prosecute shoplifters. Benefit cuts and their effects are issues for elected politicians.. If he feels it is an issue he should provide feedback to the Home Office not to the general public. I would have thought a bigger issue was the ridiculously small sentences handed out to convicted criminals. There is no incentive to stop offending. We need more job opportunities, more incentive to work and less tolerance of people who won't work but that isn't the police's job The police are becoming far too liberal and seem to be unwilling to do what they are paid for. Stop making excuses and do what you are well paid for. Homshaw1
  • Score: 8

12:23pm Mon 11 Aug 14

David Lacey says...

Splendid Homshaw. I salute you.
Splendid Homshaw. I salute you. David Lacey
  • Score: 2

12:28pm Mon 11 Aug 14

Homshaw1 says...

Two more problems with this story.

Why is it only female offenders who can avoid prosecution by doing a course? Is that not sexist?

Why has Cleveland gone up 7% and Durham 35%? Big difference
Two more problems with this story. Why is it only female offenders who can avoid prosecution by doing a course? Is that not sexist? Why has Cleveland gone up 7% and Durham 35%? Big difference Homshaw1
  • Score: 3

12:59pm Mon 11 Aug 14

Red rose lad says...

Nailed it Homshaw. We need an overhaul of the Judicial system. Ignore the 'prison doesn't work brigade' and make prisons less like a Travelodge and more like a Moroccan hell-hole. I know what doesn't work, letting them off with a slap on the wrist time after time so they can reoffend at will. Lets stop sounding surprised when a scrote absconds from an open prison. Its because the bleeding door isn't locked. Time to stop the politics and get back to policing Boss. There's lots of poorer people who don't turn to crime.
Nailed it Homshaw. We need an overhaul of the Judicial system. Ignore the 'prison doesn't work brigade' and make prisons less like a Travelodge and more like a Moroccan hell-hole. I know what doesn't work, letting them off with a slap on the wrist time after time so they can reoffend at will. Lets stop sounding surprised when a scrote absconds from an open prison. Its because the bleeding door isn't locked. Time to stop the politics and get back to policing Boss. There's lots of poorer people who don't turn to crime. Red rose lad
  • Score: 4

8:01am Tue 12 Aug 14

Jonn says...

Homshaw1 wrote:
Police should arrest and prosecute shoplifters. Benefit cuts and their effects are issues for elected politicians.. If he feels it is an issue he should provide feedback to the Home Office not to the general public. I would have thought a bigger issue was the ridiculously small sentences handed out to convicted criminals. There is no incentive to stop offending. We need more job opportunities, more incentive to work and less tolerance of people who won't work but that isn't the police's job

The police are becoming far too liberal and seem to be unwilling to do what they are paid for.

Stop making excuses and do what you are well paid for.
The Police liberal?
Have you seen how they handle peaceful protests in London?
[quote][p][bold]Homshaw1[/bold] wrote: Police should arrest and prosecute shoplifters. Benefit cuts and their effects are issues for elected politicians.. If he feels it is an issue he should provide feedback to the Home Office not to the general public. I would have thought a bigger issue was the ridiculously small sentences handed out to convicted criminals. There is no incentive to stop offending. We need more job opportunities, more incentive to work and less tolerance of people who won't work but that isn't the police's job The police are becoming far too liberal and seem to be unwilling to do what they are paid for. Stop making excuses and do what you are well paid for.[/p][/quote]The Police liberal? Have you seen how they handle peaceful protests in London? Jonn
  • Score: 2

5:57pm Tue 12 Aug 14

somethinginsidesostrong says...

It seems Ron Hogg wants to rewrite the British Constitution relatively so forget Deut 5:19 Thou shalt not steal. He was a bit ambiguous - but then Ron Hoggs role as PCC is ambiguous. Just a figurehead with fictitious powers and no Job Description. Ron Hogg is supposed to hold Durham Police to account ? When bandying figures and statistics he needs to concentrate more on not recording crimes properly. Not massaging facts and figures , but being transparent especially regarding the macho sub-culture within the Police Force.
It seems Ron Hogg wants to rewrite the British Constitution relatively so forget Deut 5:19 Thou shalt not steal. He was a bit ambiguous - but then Ron Hoggs role as PCC is ambiguous. Just a figurehead with fictitious powers and no Job Description. Ron Hogg is supposed to hold Durham Police to account ? When bandying figures and statistics he needs to concentrate more on not recording crimes properly. Not massaging facts and figures , but being transparent especially regarding the macho sub-culture within the Police Force. somethinginsidesostrong
  • Score: 3

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