'Yarm for Yorkshire' poll to be held later this month

Yarm

Yarm

First published in News The Northern Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Reporter (Stockton/Hartlepool)

AN OFFICIAL poll on whether the people of Yarm want to leave Stockton Borough Council is to be held later this month.

‘Yarm for Yorkshire’ campaigners have successfully pushed for the poll which will take place in the town on Tuesday, May 27.

The result, although not legally binding, will cost about £4,000 - which will be funded by Yarm Town Council and organised by Stockton Borough Council.

There has been criticism over Stockton council’s introduction of pay and display parking in the town and the number of housing developments permitted in the area.

However, leading Stockton councillors have said that other councils operate within the same financial pressures and must obey the same planning regulations.

The question that will be asked is: “Do you, the electors of Yarm, wish Yarm to be removed from the control and administration of Stockton Borough Council and become the responsibility of North Yorkshire County Council and Hambleton District Council?”

Paul Smith, a former Tory Yarm town councillor and chairman of the Yarm for Yorkshire group, explained the referendum was triggered after an undisclosed number of people formally requested it at a parish meeting.

Mr Smith said many people in the town thought Stockton Borough Council didn’t understand the needs of market towns. He said he had received a positive response from Hambleton District Council.

Pointing out that council tax was cheaper in Hambleton, Mr Smith said: “If we’re going to be ignored, we could at least be ignored for cheaper.”

However, Coun Mark Chatburn, Ukip, who represents the town on Stockton Borough Council, stressed that the poll was not legally binding and ultimately the decision rests with the Government.

He said: “This is criminal waste of money the town council has not got.”

Leader of North Yorkshire County Council, John Weighell said: “I’m very much neutral but, of course, I’m very interested to know the wishes of the people of the Yarm.”

A spokeswoman for Hambleton District Council said: “We are unable to comment at the moment.”

A spokesman for Stockton council confirmed a poll would be held from 4pm to 9pm although no polling cards will be issued and no postal votes taken.

The population of Yarm, a relatively wealthy area, is under 9,000 and the town has about 4,000 households.

James Wharton, Conservative MP for Stockton South, declined to comment earlier today.

The council tax in the last financial year for Band A properties in the Stockton district was £1,044 but only £965 in Hambleton.

Comments (22)

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8:54pm Tue 6 May 14

chrisby33 says...

I see the nutters on Yarm Town Council are spending the precept well again this year! When will the locals stand up to these loonies and tell them enough is enough.... they are wasting your tax money!
I see the nutters on Yarm Town Council are spending the precept well again this year! When will the locals stand up to these loonies and tell them enough is enough.... they are wasting your tax money! chrisby33
  • Score: -7

9:45pm Tue 6 May 14

spragger says...

At last Yarm is growing some & trying to get away from the socialists of Stockton

You would have to blow the bridge up to keep those SBC parasites from emptying your pockets
At last Yarm is growing some & trying to get away from the socialists of Stockton You would have to blow the bridge up to keep those SBC parasites from emptying your pockets spragger
  • Score: 20

10:15pm Tue 6 May 14

Supporter of the Democratic Process says...

I have many friends who live in Hambleton who are very happy with services they are provided with. And, of course, they don't have the five year housing supply shortfall that SBC keep blaming for all of the planning approvals.
I have many friends who live in Hambleton who are very happy with services they are provided with. And, of course, they don't have the five year housing supply shortfall that SBC keep blaming for all of the planning approvals. Supporter of the Democratic Process
  • Score: 21

10:18pm Tue 6 May 14

pxatkins says...

Socialists are good. Tories are bad. Open your eyes. Look at our history. Nothing beneficial ever came to the North East from Tories; Razing of the North, Harrowing of the North, Thatcherism, Jeremy Clarkson. Ukip cast-offs.
Socialists are good. Tories are bad. Open your eyes. Look at our history. Nothing beneficial ever came to the North East from Tories; Razing of the North, Harrowing of the North, Thatcherism, Jeremy Clarkson. Ukip cast-offs. pxatkins
  • Score: -4

11:36am Wed 7 May 14

behonest says...

pxatkins wrote:
Socialists are good. Tories are bad. Open your eyes. Look at our history. Nothing beneficial ever came to the North East from Tories; Razing of the North, Harrowing of the North, Thatcherism, Jeremy Clarkson. Ukip cast-offs.
Ha Ha! This joke has lightened my day. Socialist-leaning governments have brought us nothing but economic disaster, illegal wars and a possible break up of the UK. But those in charge always feathered their own nest of course, with lots of our money though, as usual. Time for change, time for UKIP.
[quote][p][bold]pxatkins[/bold] wrote: Socialists are good. Tories are bad. Open your eyes. Look at our history. Nothing beneficial ever came to the North East from Tories; Razing of the North, Harrowing of the North, Thatcherism, Jeremy Clarkson. Ukip cast-offs.[/p][/quote]Ha Ha! This joke has lightened my day. Socialist-leaning governments have brought us nothing but economic disaster, illegal wars and a possible break up of the UK. But those in charge always feathered their own nest of course, with lots of our money though, as usual. Time for change, time for UKIP. behonest
  • Score: 0

11:42am Wed 7 May 14

behonest says...

Oh, and Jeremy Clarkson? This is the politically correct nonsense you get from Labour. A bloke jokingly uses a word deemed by the Left to be offensive or 'racist' and they want to destroy him. Labour loonies.
Oh, and Jeremy Clarkson? This is the politically correct nonsense you get from Labour. A bloke jokingly uses a word deemed by the Left to be offensive or 'racist' and they want to destroy him. Labour loonies. behonest
  • Score: 3

12:02pm Wed 7 May 14

studio says...

Yarm and its wannabe toffs, yawn.
Yarm and its wannabe toffs, yawn. studio
  • Score: -9

4:31pm Wed 7 May 14

spragger says...

If the Yarmites move into Hambleton the yawning hole in SBC finances will be funded by . . .
Wait for it ..
Increased Council Tax, Car Parking Charges & other madcap charges that socialists randomly apply.
Living in a socialist borough causes obesity, poverty & kills aspiration
If the Yarmites move into Hambleton the yawning hole in SBC finances will be funded by . . . Wait for it .. Increased Council Tax, Car Parking Charges & other madcap charges that socialists randomly apply. Living in a socialist borough causes obesity, poverty & kills aspiration spragger
  • Score: -1

8:31pm Wed 7 May 14

359282 says...

£4,000 seems cheap to give the residents of yarm a say in how they are going to be controlled..... Unless ,of course , someone is frightened if real democracy.
£4,000 seems cheap to give the residents of yarm a say in how they are going to be controlled..... Unless ,of course , someone is frightened if real democracy. 359282
  • Score: 17

2:47pm Thu 8 May 14

simpsonm says...

To spend £4000 on a referendum that is not binding is ridiculous. North Yorkshire residents have planning approvals for thousands of houses. all their residents objected but planning meeting approved. They also have parking charges. It has been pointed out that a Band A council tax is £1044 in Stockton but only £965 in Yorkshire. For the extra £1.50 per week we get our bins emptied every week not every other week as in Yorkshire. The people who have organised this referendum have done so because they were unable to stop extra dwellings and pay and display. I think they will find that North Yorkshire have tried to stop dwelling and been unsuccessful too.. The grass is not always greener at the other side of the boundary
To spend £4000 on a referendum that is not binding is ridiculous. North Yorkshire residents have planning approvals for thousands of houses. all their residents objected but planning meeting approved. They also have parking charges. It has been pointed out that a Band A council tax is £1044 in Stockton but only £965 in Yorkshire. For the extra £1.50 per week we get our bins emptied every week not every other week as in Yorkshire. The people who have organised this referendum have done so because they were unable to stop extra dwellings and pay and display. I think they will find that North Yorkshire have tried to stop dwelling and been unsuccessful too.. The grass is not always greener at the other side of the boundary simpsonm
  • Score: -9

7:34pm Thu 8 May 14

Supporter of the Democratic Process says...

Mrs Simpson must have worked hard to get her figures together as North Yorkshire is not a planning authority. Figures of relevance for Yarm would be for hambleton the relevant planning authority. Seems to be a mix of scare mongering and lack of understanding of local government here.
Mrs Simpson must have worked hard to get her figures together as North Yorkshire is not a planning authority. Figures of relevance for Yarm would be for hambleton the relevant planning authority. Seems to be a mix of scare mongering and lack of understanding of local government here. Supporter of the Democratic Process
  • Score: 11

7:48pm Thu 8 May 14

simpsonm says...

If you read the article written by Chris Webber you will see I am repeating his figures. Scaremongering is not my style/ I quote from my own experience and those of Hambleton residents. They are not impressed. Might be an idea if you used your own name so that we can see just who you are and your reasons for posting would be apparent.
If you read the article written by Chris Webber you will see I am repeating his figures. Scaremongering is not my style/ I quote from my own experience and those of Hambleton residents. They are not impressed. Might be an idea if you used your own name so that we can see just who you are and your reasons for posting would be apparent. simpsonm
  • Score: -7

7:53pm Thu 8 May 14

Supporter of the Democratic Process says...

The many Hambleton residents I know are very happy with their services. We must mix in very different circles. As for the figures I don't know the article you refer to but the press can get it wrong and figures for the whole of North Yorkshire are irrelevant.
The many Hambleton residents I know are very happy with their services. We must mix in very different circles. As for the figures I don't know the article you refer to but the press can get it wrong and figures for the whole of North Yorkshire are irrelevant. Supporter of the Democratic Process
  • Score: 10

8:38pm Thu 8 May 14

simpsonm says...

you are answering the article Maybe you should read the article you are now commenting upon.
you are answering the article Maybe you should read the article you are now commenting upon. simpsonm
  • Score: -11

8:44pm Thu 8 May 14

Supporter of the Democratic Process says...

I have read and re read the article. There is no mention in the article of planning decisions in North Yorkshire. Someone has a very fertile imagination.
I have read and re read the article. There is no mention in the article of planning decisions in North Yorkshire. Someone has a very fertile imagination. Supporter of the Democratic Process
  • Score: 9

3:30pm Fri 9 May 14

bambara says...

simpsonm wrote:
To spend £4000 on a referendum that is not binding is ridiculous. North Yorkshire residents have planning approvals for thousands of houses. all their residents objected but planning meeting approved. They also have parking charges. It has been pointed out that a Band A council tax is £1044 in Stockton but only £965 in Yorkshire. For the extra £1.50 per week we get our bins emptied every week not every other week as in Yorkshire. The people who have organised this referendum have done so because they were unable to stop extra dwellings and pay and display. I think they will find that North Yorkshire have tried to stop dwelling and been unsuccessful too.. The grass is not always greener at the other side of the boundary
All those posh houses and wealthy residents and they can only manage to reduce the tax by £1.50 per week.
Of course in rosy sunny Toryland the house prices are higher sosurely the equivalent % of council tax level should be much lower to make up for the higher banding.
But then maybe this is just the natural Tory reluctance to mix with the rest of us great unwashed.
[quote][p][bold]simpsonm[/bold] wrote: To spend £4000 on a referendum that is not binding is ridiculous. North Yorkshire residents have planning approvals for thousands of houses. all their residents objected but planning meeting approved. They also have parking charges. It has been pointed out that a Band A council tax is £1044 in Stockton but only £965 in Yorkshire. For the extra £1.50 per week we get our bins emptied every week not every other week as in Yorkshire. The people who have organised this referendum have done so because they were unable to stop extra dwellings and pay and display. I think they will find that North Yorkshire have tried to stop dwelling and been unsuccessful too.. The grass is not always greener at the other side of the boundary[/p][/quote]All those posh houses and wealthy residents and they can only manage to reduce the tax by £1.50 per week. Of course in rosy sunny Toryland the house prices are higher sosurely the equivalent % of council tax level should be much lower to make up for the higher banding. But then maybe this is just the natural Tory reluctance to mix with the rest of us great unwashed. bambara
  • Score: -9

5:17pm Fri 9 May 14

Supporter of the Democratic Process says...

bambara wrote:
simpsonm wrote:
To spend £4000 on a referendum that is not binding is ridiculous. North Yorkshire residents have planning approvals for thousands of houses. all their residents objected but planning meeting approved. They also have parking charges. It has been pointed out that a Band A council tax is £1044 in Stockton but only £965 in Yorkshire. For the extra £1.50 per week we get our bins emptied every week not every other week as in Yorkshire. The people who have organised this referendum have done so because they were unable to stop extra dwellings and pay and display. I think they will find that North Yorkshire have tried to stop dwelling and been unsuccessful too.. The grass is not always greener at the other side of the boundary
All those posh houses and wealthy residents and they can only manage to reduce the tax by £1.50 per week.
Of course in rosy sunny Toryland the house prices are higher sosurely the equivalent % of council tax level should be much lower to make up for the higher banding.
But then maybe this is just the natural Tory reluctance to mix with the rest of us great unwashed.
These figures relate to a band A house. Very few houses in Yarm are band A, savings are likely to be substantially more.
[quote][p][bold]bambara[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]simpsonm[/bold] wrote: To spend £4000 on a referendum that is not binding is ridiculous. North Yorkshire residents have planning approvals for thousands of houses. all their residents objected but planning meeting approved. They also have parking charges. It has been pointed out that a Band A council tax is £1044 in Stockton but only £965 in Yorkshire. For the extra £1.50 per week we get our bins emptied every week not every other week as in Yorkshire. The people who have organised this referendum have done so because they were unable to stop extra dwellings and pay and display. I think they will find that North Yorkshire have tried to stop dwelling and been unsuccessful too.. The grass is not always greener at the other side of the boundary[/p][/quote]All those posh houses and wealthy residents and they can only manage to reduce the tax by £1.50 per week. Of course in rosy sunny Toryland the house prices are higher sosurely the equivalent % of council tax level should be much lower to make up for the higher banding. But then maybe this is just the natural Tory reluctance to mix with the rest of us great unwashed.[/p][/quote]These figures relate to a band A house. Very few houses in Yarm are band A, savings are likely to be substantially more. Supporter of the Democratic Process
  • Score: 7

9:59pm Fri 9 May 14

359282 says...

I'm not a resident of Yarm, but I recall that Stockton Council forced the parking issue despite significant opposition from Yarm residents..... What goes around comes around..... I hope the ballot illustrates that Yarm wants to leave Stockton. Regardless of the 'not legally binding' status , I suspect that central government will succeed in listening where Stockton failed !
I'm not a resident of Yarm, but I recall that Stockton Council forced the parking issue despite significant opposition from Yarm residents..... What goes around comes around..... I hope the ballot illustrates that Yarm wants to leave Stockton. Regardless of the 'not legally binding' status , I suspect that central government will succeed in listening where Stockton failed ! 359282
  • Score: 8

11:36am Sat 10 May 14

John Durham says...

I suspect they are wasting the 4 grand - the Boundary Commission are highly unlikely to allow an area like Yarm to shift into Hambleton regardless of the vote. They would have to do the same to Ingleby Barwick, Marton and Nunthorpe and probably most of Redcar & Cleveland council area too. Just won't happen.
And as for parking charges - haven't N Yorks just introduced charges in a whole host of towns in their area - Thirsk, Northallerton etc - I've seen the complaints in the D&S Times.
PS Yarm is technically in Yorkshire so their group should be called 'Yarm for paying its council tax to Hambleton' not the more emotive 'Yarm for Yorkshire'.
I suspect they are wasting the 4 grand - the Boundary Commission are highly unlikely to allow an area like Yarm to shift into Hambleton regardless of the vote. They would have to do the same to Ingleby Barwick, Marton and Nunthorpe and probably most of Redcar & Cleveland council area too. Just won't happen. And as for parking charges - haven't N Yorks just introduced charges in a whole host of towns in their area - Thirsk, Northallerton etc - I've seen the complaints in the D&S Times. PS Yarm is technically in Yorkshire so their group should be called 'Yarm for paying its council tax to Hambleton' not the more emotive 'Yarm for Yorkshire'. John Durham
  • Score: 0

7:03pm Sat 10 May 14

cheapside says...

Lets go the whole hog. Back to pre - 68.
Natural river boundaries.
Only County Durham and North Yorkshire.
No Teesside or Cleveland.
Perhaps everyone will know who and where they are.

I currently pity the people of Bishopton - they are in the Borough of Darlington, with a Teesside Postcode and Sedgefield Telephone Area Code.
No wonder we live in a confused world.
Lets go the whole hog. Back to pre - 68. Natural river boundaries. Only County Durham and North Yorkshire. No Teesside or Cleveland. Perhaps everyone will know who and where they are. I currently pity the people of Bishopton - they are in the Borough of Darlington, with a Teesside Postcode and Sedgefield Telephone Area Code. No wonder we live in a confused world. cheapside
  • Score: 11

11:08am Sun 11 May 14

bambara says...

Supporter of the Democratic Process wrote:
bambara wrote:
simpsonm wrote: To spend £4000 on a referendum that is not binding is ridiculous. North Yorkshire residents have planning approvals for thousands of houses. all their residents objected but planning meeting approved. They also have parking charges. It has been pointed out that a Band A council tax is £1044 in Stockton but only £965 in Yorkshire. For the extra £1.50 per week we get our bins emptied every week not every other week as in Yorkshire. The people who have organised this referendum have done so because they were unable to stop extra dwellings and pay and display. I think they will find that North Yorkshire have tried to stop dwelling and been unsuccessful too.. The grass is not always greener at the other side of the boundary
All those posh houses and wealthy residents and they can only manage to reduce the tax by £1.50 per week. Of course in rosy sunny Toryland the house prices are higher sosurely the equivalent % of council tax level should be much lower to make up for the higher banding. But then maybe this is just the natural Tory reluctance to mix with the rest of us great unwashed.
These figures relate to a band A house. Very few houses in Yarm are band A, savings are likely to be substantially more.
That is precisely the point. Very few houses in the Tory council areas are Band A when compared to the number of such houses in the Labour council areas.

Band A pays 67% of the Band D level.

If the council needs to generate £1000 per household to function and they have all Band D properties then the Council Tax would be £1000
If a similar council also needed to generate £1000 but with all Band A properties then the council tax would be £1500.
Not because the council with the Band A properties is less efficient. It is just maths, 2 properties at £1000 * 100% = £2000, but it takes 3 properties at £1000 * 67% or 2 at £1500 * 67%

Yarm is currently in a council with lower property values than Hambleton, in order to generate the same income levels the Stockton council has to have a higher Band D level, purely because they get a lower % of the headline figure per household.

The population of Yarm may well vote to join Hambleton, and the population of Peterlee could just as well vote to do so, but then Hambleton (if they accepted either - and I'm very well aware Peterlee are not suggesting a vote) would have to provide the additional services for those people from the additional council tax recieved from them.
Now as Yarm is relatively affluent with again relatively higher property values the % of the base council tax paid would be higher than it would be for a poorer area, so if they were to join Hambleton then Hambleton could probably manage without increasing the council tax. (The impact on Stockton of course would be to further depress the average house value, & % of headline council tax received per property, and as a result force the council tax up further for the remaining residents - Again this is just down to mathematics and nothing to do with efficiency.)
If on the other hand a poorer area (e..g. Peterlee) joined a wealthy council the income at a lower % of the headline figure would not meet the costs associated. The wealthy council would then need to increase council tax.

So by definition and as a direct result of the funding formula (which does not adequately even out these discrepencies and which has been made even more unequal by the Tory government) those in poorer areas are expected to pay a much higher portion of income than the wealthy in council tax, and wealthy people in poor areas are impacted even more so. This latter point is of course likely to result in the wealthy wanting to move either physically (or as in Yarm conceptually) to an area dominated by other wealthy individuals, with an associated escalation in housing prices in these wealthy areas.
So in effect we get an apartheid by affluence, driven by Tory manipulation of the funding process for local councils.
[quote][p][bold]Supporter of the Democratic Process[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bambara[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]simpsonm[/bold] wrote: To spend £4000 on a referendum that is not binding is ridiculous. North Yorkshire residents have planning approvals for thousands of houses. all their residents objected but planning meeting approved. They also have parking charges. It has been pointed out that a Band A council tax is £1044 in Stockton but only £965 in Yorkshire. For the extra £1.50 per week we get our bins emptied every week not every other week as in Yorkshire. The people who have organised this referendum have done so because they were unable to stop extra dwellings and pay and display. I think they will find that North Yorkshire have tried to stop dwelling and been unsuccessful too.. The grass is not always greener at the other side of the boundary[/p][/quote]All those posh houses and wealthy residents and they can only manage to reduce the tax by £1.50 per week. Of course in rosy sunny Toryland the house prices are higher sosurely the equivalent % of council tax level should be much lower to make up for the higher banding. But then maybe this is just the natural Tory reluctance to mix with the rest of us great unwashed.[/p][/quote]These figures relate to a band A house. Very few houses in Yarm are band A, savings are likely to be substantially more.[/p][/quote]That is precisely the point. Very few houses in the Tory council areas are Band A when compared to the number of such houses in the Labour council areas. Band A pays 67% of the Band D level. If the council needs to generate £1000 per household to function and they have all Band D properties then the Council Tax would be £1000 If a similar council also needed to generate £1000 but with all Band A properties then the council tax would be £1500. Not because the council with the Band A properties is less efficient. It is just maths, 2 properties at £1000 * 100% = £2000, but it takes 3 properties at £1000 * 67% or 2 at £1500 * 67% Yarm is currently in a council with lower property values than Hambleton, in order to generate the same income levels the Stockton council has to have a higher Band D level, purely because they get a lower % of the headline figure per household. The population of Yarm may well vote to join Hambleton, and the population of Peterlee could just as well vote to do so, but then Hambleton (if they accepted either - and I'm very well aware Peterlee are not suggesting a vote) would have to provide the additional services for those people from the additional council tax recieved from them. Now as Yarm is relatively affluent with again relatively higher property values the % of the base council tax paid would be higher than it would be for a poorer area, so if they were to join Hambleton then Hambleton could probably manage without increasing the council tax. (The impact on Stockton of course would be to further depress the average house value, & % of headline council tax received per property, and as a result force the council tax up further for the remaining residents - Again this is just down to mathematics and nothing to do with efficiency.) If on the other hand a poorer area (e..g. Peterlee) joined a wealthy council the income at a lower % of the headline figure would not meet the costs associated. The wealthy council would then need to increase council tax. So by definition and as a direct result of the funding formula (which does not adequately even out these discrepencies and which has been made even more unequal by the Tory government) those in poorer areas are expected to pay a much higher portion of income than the wealthy in council tax, and wealthy people in poor areas are impacted even more so. This latter point is of course likely to result in the wealthy wanting to move either physically (or as in Yarm conceptually) to an area dominated by other wealthy individuals, with an associated escalation in housing prices in these wealthy areas. So in effect we get an apartheid by affluence, driven by Tory manipulation of the funding process for local councils. bambara
  • Score: 3

2:21pm Mon 12 May 14

David Lacey says...

Rubbish.
Rubbish. David Lacey
  • Score: -5

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