Coroner calls for laws to govern mobility scooters after death of Bedale man, 85

12:00am Wednesday 27th February 2013 in News By Janet Gleeson

MOBILITY scooter users should have to pass a test before they are allowed out in public, a coroner said at the inquest of a pensioner with serious sight problems killed when he "bolted out" in front of a car.

Ron Archbold, 85, of Queen Ann's Drive, Bedale, North Yorkshire, bought the scooter after giving up driving 18 months beforehand.

He was killed as he crossed a junction in the town last September.

Michael Oakley, coroner for North Yorkshire East, told the inquest into Mr Archbold's death, that there were currently no regulations governing who could ride a mobility scooter and said he would write to the Government asking for them to be introduced.

However, the Department for Transport (Dft) said tonight (Tuesday, February 26) that although it was developing plans for a pilot scheme in which people would be given standard eye tests, there were no plans to introduce formal training.

And pensioners' charity, Age UK, said legislation might discourage some people from considering mobility scooters, leaving them isolated.

Recalling the accident in which Mr Archbold died, cyclist Jason Cuthbertson, said he saw the pensioner at the junction.

"I saw the mobility scooter bolt out," he said. "It was about ten yards away and there was nothing the car driver could have done."

Accident investigator, TC Paul Davenport told the inquest Mr Archbold had taken to watching television three feet away from the screen and a medical report found serious problems with his vision.

"This collision occurred when Mr Archbold came from Firby Road into the path of (the) car, it should have been clearly visible to him, but the state of Mr Archbold's eyesight had an impact on this collision," he said.

Recording a verdict of accidental death, Mr Oakley, said: "There are no regulations about buying a mobility scooter, no regulations for training or eyesight checks.

"I propose to write to the Department for Transport with a Rule 43 recommendation that steps should be taken to bring in regulations for these types of mobility scooters."

The calls comes as Caren Jephson (CORR) from Derbyshire, whose nine-year-old son was injured by a mobility scooter, was due to hand in a 3,000-name petition to the Government calling for laws to cover Britains estimated 300,000 mobility scooters.

The spokesman for the Department for Transport said the Government wanted to ensure scooter users were both safe and considerate.

"That is why we are working with mobility vehicle trainers, retailers and others to promote more safety training and are developing plans for a pilot scheme in which scooter drivers are given a standard eye tests," he said.

However, he added: "We have no plans to make it necessary for mobility vehicles to have number plates or to require people to undertake mandatory training."

Age UK director general, Michelle Mitchell, said scooters help those with mobility problems maintain their independence.

"Additional laws could discourage vulnerable older people from using mobility scooters, meaning that they become unable to access local services, stay in touch with friends, family or in some cases even remain independent," she said. "Age UK support the idea of voluntary training for the safety of drivers and other people on the road."

A spokesman for The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, RoSPA, said: "The Government recently committed to collecting more data, and this is welcome, as it will help to develop current initiatives to be more effective at preventing mobility scooter-related injuries and accidents."

Comments (40)

1:24am Wed 27 Feb 13

George BA says...

There is nothing but anecdotal evidence on the poor safety record of people using these machines.

I know feom personal experience it is as if people on these machines are invisible, in paticular people not keeping their eyes and ears open, no amount of testing will change this, pedestrians in particular just dont look.

Many cyclists a year get killed or maimed by other road users, not by mistakes by the bicycle rider, I believe it is the same for mobility scooter users.

Responsible owners of mobility scooter often receive training from the store they purchase the scooters from.
There is nothing but anecdotal evidence on the poor safety record of people using these machines. I know feom personal experience it is as if people on these machines are invisible, in paticular people not keeping their eyes and ears open, no amount of testing will change this, pedestrians in particular just dont look. Many cyclists a year get killed or maimed by other road users, not by mistakes by the bicycle rider, I believe it is the same for mobility scooter users. Responsible owners of mobility scooter often receive training from the store they purchase the scooters from. George BA

8:00am Wed 27 Feb 13

stevegg says...

I'm sure many of you, like me, have had personal experience of mobility scooter drivers most of whom think they are untouchable due to their age and can do what they like with impunity. They have this simplistic view that because they are old everyone will give way to them no matter what they do, even on roads. If they do cause an accident they hide behind their age and immobility in defence. Unfortunately for this user, they paid with their life
I'm sure many of you, like me, have had personal experience of mobility scooter drivers most of whom think they are untouchable due to their age and can do what they like with impunity. They have this simplistic view that because they are old everyone will give way to them no matter what they do, even on roads. If they do cause an accident they hide behind their age and immobility in defence. Unfortunately for this user, they paid with their life stevegg

8:04am Wed 27 Feb 13

Madadrian says...

Coroner is in idiot with little understanding of the issues on the use of electric wheelchairs.
Coroner is in idiot with little understanding of the issues on the use of electric wheelchairs. Madadrian

8:54am Wed 27 Feb 13

jude666 says...

They should also have to pay road tax and insurance on the vehilce like every one else who takes a vehicle on the road.
They should also have to pay road tax and insurance on the vehilce like every one else who takes a vehicle on the road. jude666

9:31am Wed 27 Feb 13

Blankface says...

Definately need eyesight tests before out on the road but most won't need training cos they'll prob have been car drivers.
Definately need eyesight tests before out on the road but most won't need training cos they'll prob have been car drivers. Blankface

9:49am Wed 27 Feb 13

one care mobility says...

I myself own a mobility company in Northallerton and have worked in the industry for 11 years. I will not sell any scooter or powered mobility product without conducting a full assessment. as this is not law yet, anyone can buy from any where i.e. Internet without an assessment.
But it is down to the company to ensure they carry out their job correctly.
Mr Archbold has had a mobility scooter for over 10 years and it was his responsibility to say if his eye sight had deteriorated over the last year. We cannot police this once the scooter has been sold.

If anyone would like to read about mobility scooter assessments please visit http://www.onecaremo
bility.co.uk/buying-
advice/ this will give you all anyone should need to know.#
I myself own a mobility company in Northallerton and have worked in the industry for 11 years. I will not sell any scooter or powered mobility product without conducting a full assessment. as this is not law yet, anyone can buy from any where i.e. Internet without an assessment. But it is down to the company to ensure they carry out their job correctly. Mr Archbold has had a mobility scooter for over 10 years and it was his responsibility to say if his eye sight had deteriorated over the last year. We cannot police this once the scooter has been sold. If anyone would like to read about mobility scooter assessments please visit http://www.onecaremo bility.co.uk/buying- advice/ this will give you all anyone should need to know.# one care mobility

10:08am Wed 27 Feb 13

smokin says...

a lot of these mobility scooter riders are so bad mannered to other road users
as I used to tell my mum who was 93 AGE IS NO EXCUSE FOR BAD MANNERS
when she would say when crossing a road THEY CAN WAIT FOR ME !
they do need to be trained if not with the scooter with road manners !!!!!!
a lot of these mobility scooter riders are so bad mannered to other road users as I used to tell my mum who was 93 AGE IS NO EXCUSE FOR BAD MANNERS when she would say when crossing a road THEY CAN WAIT FOR ME ! they do need to be trained if not with the scooter with road manners !!!!!! smokin

10:12am Wed 27 Feb 13

one care mobility says...

jude666 wrote:
They should also have to pay road tax and insurance on the vehilce like every one else who takes a vehicle on the road.
On road going scooter road tax is free as is for all disabled drivers of cars, but i do agree that insurance should be compulsory.
[quote][p][bold]jude666[/bold] wrote: They should also have to pay road tax and insurance on the vehilce like every one else who takes a vehicle on the road.[/p][/quote]On road going scooter road tax is free as is for all disabled drivers of cars, but i do agree that insurance should be compulsory. one care mobility

10:14am Wed 27 Feb 13

one care mobility says...

stevegg wrote:
I'm sure many of you, like me, have had personal experience of mobility scooter drivers most of whom think they are untouchable due to their age and can do what they like with impunity. They have this simplistic view that because they are old everyone will give way to them no matter what they do, even on roads. If they do cause an accident they hide behind their age and immobility in defence. Unfortunately for this user, they paid with their life
It is down to the individual as with road rage. most of the mobility scooters users I deal with are careful and understand the highway code of mobility scooter practise
[quote][p][bold]stevegg[/bold] wrote: I'm sure many of you, like me, have had personal experience of mobility scooter drivers most of whom think they are untouchable due to their age and can do what they like with impunity. They have this simplistic view that because they are old everyone will give way to them no matter what they do, even on roads. If they do cause an accident they hide behind their age and immobility in defence. Unfortunately for this user, they paid with their life[/p][/quote]It is down to the individual as with road rage. most of the mobility scooters users I deal with are careful and understand the highway code of mobility scooter practise one care mobility

10:36am Wed 27 Feb 13

nikkikenney says...

Yes there should be proper training and insurance should be enforced to all users. I know from my disabled Dad's experience of a local mobility shop that they do assessments and turn people down if they do not seem safe and training is given if successful. Customers who buy second hand goods from auction sites or buy off the internet companies cannot be regulated but the internet sellers could be stopped.
Pedestrians also need to be more aware, they are the worst offenders for not taking any notice of the enviroment around them. It is market day in Northallerton today, I am a pedestrian and it is a nightmare walking around never mind trying to negotiate a scooter around so you can get shopping etc. This was an unfortunate accident with a car involved and I would imagine a very rare occurance.
Yes there should be proper training and insurance should be enforced to all users. I know from my disabled Dad's experience of a local mobility shop that they do assessments and turn people down if they do not seem safe and training is given if successful. Customers who buy second hand goods from auction sites or buy off the internet companies cannot be regulated but the internet sellers could be stopped. Pedestrians also need to be more aware, they are the worst offenders for not taking any notice of the enviroment around them. It is market day in Northallerton today, I am a pedestrian and it is a nightmare walking around never mind trying to negotiate a scooter around so you can get shopping etc. This was an unfortunate accident with a car involved and I would imagine a very rare occurance. nikkikenney

11:06am Wed 27 Feb 13

sarahd says...

I have come close to hitting (with my car, not physically punching!)a lady on a mobility scooter. She looked at me for a few seconds and as I got closer, she decided she would cross the road. If I hadn't have been able to swerve I would have hit her. She didn't even flinch. Even my 8 year old daughter shouted stupid woman. If an 8 year old can see that shouldn't have happened why can't a woman in her 70's.

By the way, I say 70's but obviously cannot be totally sure although she didn't look like she was in her 80's/90's.
I have come close to hitting (with my car, not physically punching!)a lady on a mobility scooter. She looked at me for a few seconds and as I got closer, she decided she would cross the road. If I hadn't have been able to swerve I would have hit her. She didn't even flinch. Even my 8 year old daughter shouted stupid woman. If an 8 year old can see that shouldn't have happened why can't a woman in her 70's. By the way, I say 70's but obviously cannot be totally sure although she didn't look like she was in her 80's/90's. sarahd

12:34pm Wed 27 Feb 13

fishpond says...

I have used a mobility scooter for the last 10 years as the result of an accident, like all things in life there are idiots but in my experience the majority are very aware that these machines are virtually silent and always give way to pedestrians who by nature of description have the right of way to pavements.
like so many things in life it is the minority that give the majority a bad name
I have used a mobility scooter for the last 10 years as the result of an accident, like all things in life there are idiots but in my experience the majority are very aware that these machines are virtually silent and always give way to pedestrians who by nature of description have the right of way to pavements. like so many things in life it is the minority that give the majority a bad name fishpond

1:53pm Wed 27 Feb 13

Ally F says...

There are already rules covering various classes of mobility scooter, their maximum speed, which classes should be registered with the DVLA and where they are legally allowed to be used.

http://www.dft.gov.u
k/dvla/vehicles/inva
lid_vehicles.aspx?ex
t=dg

I suspect these rules are seldom if ever enforced.

A Class 3 large mobility scooter doing 8mph on a pavement with a laden weight of 250kg has 4x the kinetic energy than at 4mph (E = 0.5.m.v2) That's the reason why on-pavement scooters should be restricted to 4mph. Many I see are clearly being ridden at higher speeds however. (4mph is a brisk walking speed for comparison.)

Unfortunately it is inevitable that many mobility scooter users will have a physical impairment that might disadvantage or even endanger them. Loss of sight, hearing, congitive reaction times, distance perception, etc. to name a few.
There are already rules covering various classes of mobility scooter, their maximum speed, which classes should be registered with the DVLA and where they are legally allowed to be used. http://www.dft.gov.u k/dvla/vehicles/inva lid_vehicles.aspx?ex t=dg I suspect these rules are seldom if ever enforced. A Class 3 large mobility scooter doing 8mph on a pavement with a laden weight of 250kg has 4x the kinetic energy than at 4mph (E = 0.5.m.v2) That's the reason why on-pavement scooters should be restricted to 4mph. Many I see are clearly being ridden at higher speeds however. (4mph is a brisk walking speed for comparison.) Unfortunately it is inevitable that many mobility scooter users will have a physical impairment that might disadvantage or even endanger them. Loss of sight, hearing, congitive reaction times, distance perception, etc. to name a few. Ally F

2:49pm Wed 27 Feb 13

mark.wilkinson says...

Motor Scooters are a great idea soured by a few idiots. Aint that always the way with these things.

And whats with all the morbidly obese people using them? you're never going to lose weight if you're using a scooter. Get off your fat arse and walk and then you won't need a scooter. (cue all the excuses for being a useless fat git)

I think you should have to have 3rd party insurance and pass a test before being allowed out on one. The combined weight can easily exceed 200 kgs and you do not want that running into the back of you.
Motor Scooters are a great idea soured by a few idiots. Aint that always the way with these things. And whats with all the morbidly obese people using them? you're never going to lose weight if you're using a scooter. Get off your fat arse and walk and then you won't need a scooter. (cue all the excuses for being a useless fat git) I think you should have to have 3rd party insurance and pass a test before being allowed out on one. The combined weight can easily exceed 200 kgs and you do not want that running into the back of you. mark.wilkinson

2:58pm Wed 27 Feb 13

Blankface says...

mark.wilkinson wrote:
Motor Scooters are a great idea soured by a few idiots. Aint that always the way with these things.

And whats with all the morbidly obese people using them? you're never going to lose weight if you're using a scooter. Get off your fat arse and walk and then you won't need a scooter. (cue all the excuses for being a useless fat git)

I think you should have to have 3rd party insurance and pass a test before being allowed out on one. The combined weight can easily exceed 200 kgs and you do not want that running into the back of you.
Holy crap for once I actually agree with you, try not to let it happen again lol.
[quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: Motor Scooters are a great idea soured by a few idiots. Aint that always the way with these things. And whats with all the morbidly obese people using them? you're never going to lose weight if you're using a scooter. Get off your fat arse and walk and then you won't need a scooter. (cue all the excuses for being a useless fat git) I think you should have to have 3rd party insurance and pass a test before being allowed out on one. The combined weight can easily exceed 200 kgs and you do not want that running into the back of you.[/p][/quote]Holy crap for once I actually agree with you, try not to let it happen again lol. Blankface

3:00pm Wed 27 Feb 13

st-george1 says...

Albert Einstein once said … The world is a dangerous place to live in ...
Like cyclists many of these scooter users are a menace without licence, whose ill-mannered and inconsiderate behaviour is a game it seems ... forcing pedestrians to jump out of their way ...
In my opinion, they all need to be banned UFN until passing some sort of test, having some kind of plated-insurance and a clear understanding that PEDESTRIANS safety is a priority and must come first.
Failure to to do must have serious consequences !
Albert Einstein once said … The world is a dangerous place to live in ... Like cyclists many of these scooter users are a menace without licence, whose ill-mannered and inconsiderate behaviour is a game it seems ... forcing pedestrians to jump out of their way ... In my opinion, they all need to be banned UFN until passing some sort of test, having some kind of plated-insurance and a clear understanding that PEDESTRIANS safety is a priority and must come first. Failure to to do must have serious consequences ! st-george1

3:08pm Wed 27 Feb 13

Jolly Roger says...

So what are you saying - THAT NO ONE WHO IS BLIND - should go out on the road alone.

Because this is what the coroner is impling.

How is this going to be policed.
So what are you saying - THAT NO ONE WHO IS BLIND - should go out on the road alone. Because this is what the coroner is impling. How is this going to be policed. Jolly Roger

3:11pm Wed 27 Feb 13

shirt of blue says...

mark.wilkinson wrote:
Motor Scooters are a great idea soured by a few idiots. Aint that always the way with these things.

And whats with all the morbidly obese people using them? you're never going to lose weight if you're using a scooter. Get off your fat arse and walk and then you won't need a scooter. (cue all the excuses for being a useless fat git)

I think you should have to have 3rd party insurance and pass a test before being allowed out on one. The combined weight can easily exceed 200 kgs and you do not want that running into the back of you.
Oh how true. No need for lard arses to be flying around at speed on a motor scooter - cut down on your pork life get some exercise
[quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: Motor Scooters are a great idea soured by a few idiots. Aint that always the way with these things. And whats with all the morbidly obese people using them? you're never going to lose weight if you're using a scooter. Get off your fat arse and walk and then you won't need a scooter. (cue all the excuses for being a useless fat git) I think you should have to have 3rd party insurance and pass a test before being allowed out on one. The combined weight can easily exceed 200 kgs and you do not want that running into the back of you.[/p][/quote]Oh how true. No need for lard arses to be flying around at speed on a motor scooter - cut down on your pork life get some exercise shirt of blue

3:25pm Wed 27 Feb 13

mark.wilkinson says...

Blankface wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
Motor Scooters are a great idea soured by a few idiots. Aint that always the way with these things.

And whats with all the morbidly obese people using them? you're never going to lose weight if you're using a scooter. Get off your fat arse and walk and then you won't need a scooter. (cue all the excuses for being a useless fat git)

I think you should have to have 3rd party insurance and pass a test before being allowed out on one. The combined weight can easily exceed 200 kgs and you do not want that running into the back of you.
Holy crap for once I actually agree with you, try not to let it happen again lol.
I'll do my best lol. You see we might even have a few things in common!
[quote][p][bold]Blankface[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: Motor Scooters are a great idea soured by a few idiots. Aint that always the way with these things. And whats with all the morbidly obese people using them? you're never going to lose weight if you're using a scooter. Get off your fat arse and walk and then you won't need a scooter. (cue all the excuses for being a useless fat git) I think you should have to have 3rd party insurance and pass a test before being allowed out on one. The combined weight can easily exceed 200 kgs and you do not want that running into the back of you.[/p][/quote]Holy crap for once I actually agree with you, try not to let it happen again lol.[/p][/quote]I'll do my best lol. You see we might even have a few things in common! mark.wilkinson

4:35pm Wed 27 Feb 13

Copley23 says...

Remember the scooter hit and run in Barnard Castle a few years ago?
A poor person left with a broken leg and no flippin sign of the scooter rider.........says a lot really.

3rd party insurance on them should sort the men from the boys.

By the way - anyone sold a scooter that isn't sure about handling or remains a little nervous, pop down to the wonderful folks in DAD in Darlington, they are always happy to advise and have been wonderful in the past with my family.
Remember the scooter hit and run in Barnard Castle a few years ago? A poor person left with a broken leg and no flippin sign of the scooter rider.........says a lot really. 3rd party insurance on them should sort the men from the boys. By the way - anyone sold a scooter that isn't sure about handling or remains a little nervous, pop down to the wonderful folks in DAD in Darlington, they are always happy to advise and have been wonderful in the past with my family. Copley23

6:26pm Wed 27 Feb 13

robbiejay says...

There's a woman rides around Durham and it's a wonder she hasn't been killed yet as she drives down the middle of the road following the white line. I've seen a few near misses with her. She's completely oblivious to everything around her as she scoots back home from the pub.
There's a woman rides around Durham and it's a wonder she hasn't been killed yet as she drives down the middle of the road following the white line. I've seen a few near misses with her. She's completely oblivious to everything around her as she scoots back home from the pub. robbiejay

3:37am Thu 28 Feb 13

tomtopper says...

sarahd wrote:
I have come close to hitting (with my car, not physically punching!)a lady on a mobility scooter. She looked at me for a few seconds and as I got closer, she decided she would cross the road. If I hadn't have been able to swerve I would have hit her. She didn't even flinch. Even my 8 year old daughter shouted stupid woman. If an 8 year old can see that shouldn't have happened why can't a woman in her 70's.

By the way, I say 70's but obviously cannot be totally sure although she didn't look like she was in her 80's/90's.
Because 8 yr olds are sharp and miss very little.. Old people start becoming a little forgetful and not quite as sharp as in their youth.. But that doesn't make them stupid and allowances should be made for the elderly.. They can't all be perfect like you...

It does sound more like your driving was at fault as you were probably switched off to the potential hazard.. Which comes as no surprise in this day and age...
[quote][p][bold]sarahd[/bold] wrote: I have come close to hitting (with my car, not physically punching!)a lady on a mobility scooter. She looked at me for a few seconds and as I got closer, she decided she would cross the road. If I hadn't have been able to swerve I would have hit her. She didn't even flinch. Even my 8 year old daughter shouted stupid woman. If an 8 year old can see that shouldn't have happened why can't a woman in her 70's. By the way, I say 70's but obviously cannot be totally sure although she didn't look like she was in her 80's/90's.[/p][/quote]Because 8 yr olds are sharp and miss very little.. Old people start becoming a little forgetful and not quite as sharp as in their youth.. But that doesn't make them stupid and allowances should be made for the elderly.. They can't all be perfect like you... It does sound more like your driving was at fault as you were probably switched off to the potential hazard.. Which comes as no surprise in this day and age... tomtopper

11:11am Thu 28 Feb 13

madsmadsissy says...

The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.
The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy. madsmadsissy

5:37pm Thu 28 Feb 13

babz says...

I must say I've never seen a mobility scooter driver with a mobile phone clamped to his or her ear, or with blaring music thumping while speeding through the town centre, age is nothing to do with being safe on the road, it's ignorance and arrogance that is the problem, if anyone should be tested regularly then everyone should be.
I must say I've never seen a mobility scooter driver with a mobile phone clamped to his or her ear, or with blaring music thumping while speeding through the town centre, age is nothing to do with being safe on the road, it's ignorance and arrogance that is the problem, if anyone should be tested regularly then everyone should be. babz

5:54pm Thu 28 Feb 13

mark.wilkinson says...

babz wrote:
I must say I've never seen a mobility scooter driver with a mobile phone clamped to his or her ear, or with blaring music thumping while speeding through the town centre, age is nothing to do with being safe on the road, it's ignorance and arrogance that is the problem, if anyone should be tested regularly then everyone should be.
Erm slightly missing the point I think.
[quote][p][bold]babz[/bold] wrote: I must say I've never seen a mobility scooter driver with a mobile phone clamped to his or her ear, or with blaring music thumping while speeding through the town centre, age is nothing to do with being safe on the road, it's ignorance and arrogance that is the problem, if anyone should be tested regularly then everyone should be.[/p][/quote]Erm slightly missing the point I think. mark.wilkinson

11:26am Fri 1 Mar 13

P Pinelli says...

jude666 wrote:
They should also have to pay road tax and insurance on the vehilce like every one else who takes a vehicle on the road.
Road Tax was abolished in 1937 along with "road fund licence" . There is VED which is tax on tailpipe CO2 emissions above 100gm per km. The VED is not and has never has been a fee to use roads.

Some larger mobility scooters afre liable for VED but pay nil rate. Just like a number of cars who don't emit enough carbon to actually pay a fee.

Following your logic these cars should not be allowed on the road either.
[quote][p][bold]jude666[/bold] wrote: They should also have to pay road tax and insurance on the vehilce like every one else who takes a vehicle on the road.[/p][/quote]Road Tax was abolished in 1937 along with "road fund licence" . There is VED which is tax on tailpipe CO2 emissions above 100gm per km. The VED is not and has never has been a fee to use roads. Some larger mobility scooters afre liable for VED but pay nil rate. Just like a number of cars who don't emit enough carbon to actually pay a fee. Following your logic these cars should not be allowed on the road either. P Pinelli

11:28am Fri 1 Mar 13

P Pinelli says...

madsmadsissy wrote:
The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.
A bit like car drivers then?
[quote][p][bold]madsmadsissy[/bold] wrote: The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.[/p][/quote]A bit like car drivers then? P Pinelli

1:58pm Fri 1 Mar 13

mark.wilkinson says...

P Pinelli wrote:
madsmadsissy wrote:
The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.
A bit like car drivers then?
Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.
[quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]madsmadsissy[/bold] wrote: The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.[/p][/quote]A bit like car drivers then?[/p][/quote]Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form. mark.wilkinson

2:25pm Fri 1 Mar 13

P Pinelli says...

mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
madsmadsissy wrote:
The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.
A bit like car drivers then?
Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.
Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads.

The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.
[quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]madsmadsissy[/bold] wrote: The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.[/p][/quote]A bit like car drivers then?[/p][/quote]Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.[/p][/quote]Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads. The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax. P Pinelli

2:32pm Fri 1 Mar 13

mark.wilkinson says...

P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
madsmadsissy wrote:
The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.
A bit like car drivers then?
Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.
Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads.

The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.
Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance
. OK
[quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]madsmadsissy[/bold] wrote: The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.[/p][/quote]A bit like car drivers then?[/p][/quote]Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.[/p][/quote]Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads. The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.[/p][/quote]Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance . OK mark.wilkinson

3:09pm Fri 1 Mar 13

P Pinelli says...

mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
madsmadsissy wrote:
The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.
A bit like car drivers then?
Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.
Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads.

The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.
Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance

. OK
Accepted that car drivers pay massive amounts of tax some of which is used for roads. Mobility scooter riders also pay massive amounts tax some of which is used for roads. Cyclists too. And bikers/scooterists as well. And for that matter pedestrians.

Just saying.

So why do many car drivers (as evidenced by the comments above) think that they are the ones that have priority rights over other users?
[quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]madsmadsissy[/bold] wrote: The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.[/p][/quote]A bit like car drivers then?[/p][/quote]Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.[/p][/quote]Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads. The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.[/p][/quote]Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance . OK[/p][/quote]Accepted that car drivers pay massive amounts of tax some of which is used for roads. Mobility scooter riders also pay massive amounts tax some of which is used for roads. Cyclists too. And bikers/scooterists as well. And for that matter pedestrians. Just saying. So why do many car drivers (as evidenced by the comments above) think that they are the ones that have priority rights over other users? P Pinelli

3:25pm Fri 1 Mar 13

mark.wilkinson says...

P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
madsmadsissy wrote:
The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.
A bit like car drivers then?
Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.
Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads.

The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.
Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance


. OK
Accepted that car drivers pay massive amounts of tax some of which is used for roads. Mobility scooter riders also pay massive amounts tax some of which is used for roads. Cyclists too. And bikers/scooterists as well. And for that matter pedestrians.

Just saying.

So why do many car drivers (as evidenced by the comments above) think that they are the ones that have priority rights over other users?
I really can't be bothered arguing the toss with a Muppet. Sorry, It's Friday afternoon and I've got better things to do with my time.
[quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]madsmadsissy[/bold] wrote: The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.[/p][/quote]A bit like car drivers then?[/p][/quote]Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.[/p][/quote]Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads. The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.[/p][/quote]Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance . OK[/p][/quote]Accepted that car drivers pay massive amounts of tax some of which is used for roads. Mobility scooter riders also pay massive amounts tax some of which is used for roads. Cyclists too. And bikers/scooterists as well. And for that matter pedestrians. Just saying. So why do many car drivers (as evidenced by the comments above) think that they are the ones that have priority rights over other users?[/p][/quote]I really can't be bothered arguing the toss with a Muppet. Sorry, It's Friday afternoon and I've got better things to do with my time. mark.wilkinson

6:25pm Fri 1 Mar 13

P Pinelli says...

mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
madsmadsissy wrote:
The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.
A bit like car drivers then?
Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.
Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads.

The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.
Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance



. OK
Accepted that car drivers pay massive amounts of tax some of which is used for roads. Mobility scooter riders also pay massive amounts tax some of which is used for roads. Cyclists too. And bikers/scooterists as well. And for that matter pedestrians.

Just saying.

So why do many car drivers (as evidenced by the comments above) think that they are the ones that have priority rights over other users?
I really can't be bothered arguing the toss with a Muppet. Sorry, It's Friday afternoon and I've got better things to do with my time.
Ok... so when the facts are set out you decide to become offensive and take your ball home.

This was an important discussion - and I wanted point out that many car drivers (and I am a car driver) simply adopt a "they don't pay road tax - so they don't have as many rights on the road as we do" position.

That position leads to a troubling attitude from a number of car drivers which causes risk and danger to all road users. (That can be witnessed in your odious comments about obese people on scooters which show a staggering level of ignorance!)

Of course all road users (including mobility scooter riders) should be expected to be safe and courteous to all other road users irrespective of the number of wheels they are using and if they are on no wheels at all. Sadly many of the comments here serve to highlight the problem..

It wasn't splitting hairs and I'm not a muppet.
[quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]madsmadsissy[/bold] wrote: The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.[/p][/quote]A bit like car drivers then?[/p][/quote]Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.[/p][/quote]Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads. The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.[/p][/quote]Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance . OK[/p][/quote]Accepted that car drivers pay massive amounts of tax some of which is used for roads. Mobility scooter riders also pay massive amounts tax some of which is used for roads. Cyclists too. And bikers/scooterists as well. And for that matter pedestrians. Just saying. So why do many car drivers (as evidenced by the comments above) think that they are the ones that have priority rights over other users?[/p][/quote]I really can't be bothered arguing the toss with a Muppet. Sorry, It's Friday afternoon and I've got better things to do with my time.[/p][/quote]Ok... so when the facts are set out you decide to become offensive and take your ball home. This was an important discussion - and I wanted point out that many car drivers (and I am a car driver) simply adopt a "they don't pay road tax - so they don't have as many rights on the road as we do" position. That position leads to a troubling attitude from a number of car drivers which causes risk and danger to all road users. (That can be witnessed in your odious comments about obese people on scooters which show a staggering level of ignorance!) Of course all road users (including mobility scooter riders) should be expected to be safe and courteous to all other road users irrespective of the number of wheels they are using and if they are on no wheels at all. Sadly many of the comments here serve to highlight the problem.. It wasn't splitting hairs and I'm not a muppet. P Pinelli

6:46pm Fri 1 Mar 13

mark.wilkinson says...

P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
madsmadsissy wrote:
The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.
A bit like car drivers then?
Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.
Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads.

The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.
Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance




. OK
Accepted that car drivers pay massive amounts of tax some of which is used for roads. Mobility scooter riders also pay massive amounts tax some of which is used for roads. Cyclists too. And bikers/scooterists as well. And for that matter pedestrians.

Just saying.

So why do many car drivers (as evidenced by the comments above) think that they are the ones that have priority rights over other users?
I really can't be bothered arguing the toss with a Muppet. Sorry, It's Friday afternoon and I've got better things to do with my time.
Ok... so when the facts are set out you decide to become offensive and take your ball home.

This was an important discussion - and I wanted point out that many car drivers (and I am a car driver) simply adopt a "they don't pay road tax - so they don't have as many rights on the road as we do" position.

That position leads to a troubling attitude from a number of car drivers which causes risk and danger to all road users. (That can be witnessed in your odious comments about obese people on scooters which show a staggering level of ignorance!)

Of course all road users (including mobility scooter riders) should be expected to be safe and courteous to all other road users irrespective of the number of wheels they are using and if they are on no wheels at all. Sadly many of the comments here serve to highlight the problem..

It wasn't splitting hairs and I'm not a muppet.
Hey Muppet boy, Are you seriously suggesting that morbidly obese people don't use scooters, and that based on that my comment was ignorant and odious?....They're out there trundling around with their huge girths for all to witness.

You were/still are/and will continue splitting hairs because you're a prat and a Muppet.
[quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]madsmadsissy[/bold] wrote: The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.[/p][/quote]A bit like car drivers then?[/p][/quote]Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.[/p][/quote]Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads. The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.[/p][/quote]Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance . OK[/p][/quote]Accepted that car drivers pay massive amounts of tax some of which is used for roads. Mobility scooter riders also pay massive amounts tax some of which is used for roads. Cyclists too. And bikers/scooterists as well. And for that matter pedestrians. Just saying. So why do many car drivers (as evidenced by the comments above) think that they are the ones that have priority rights over other users?[/p][/quote]I really can't be bothered arguing the toss with a Muppet. Sorry, It's Friday afternoon and I've got better things to do with my time.[/p][/quote]Ok... so when the facts are set out you decide to become offensive and take your ball home. This was an important discussion - and I wanted point out that many car drivers (and I am a car driver) simply adopt a "they don't pay road tax - so they don't have as many rights on the road as we do" position. That position leads to a troubling attitude from a number of car drivers which causes risk and danger to all road users. (That can be witnessed in your odious comments about obese people on scooters which show a staggering level of ignorance!) Of course all road users (including mobility scooter riders) should be expected to be safe and courteous to all other road users irrespective of the number of wheels they are using and if they are on no wheels at all. Sadly many of the comments here serve to highlight the problem.. It wasn't splitting hairs and I'm not a muppet.[/p][/quote]Hey Muppet boy, Are you seriously suggesting that morbidly obese people don't use scooters, and that based on that my comment was ignorant and odious?....They're out there trundling around with their huge girths for all to witness. You were/still are/and will continue splitting hairs because you're a prat and a Muppet. mark.wilkinson

12:07am Sat 2 Mar 13

tomtopper says...

P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
madsmadsissy wrote:
The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.
A bit like car drivers then?
Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.
Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads.

The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.
Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance




. OK
Accepted that car drivers pay massive amounts of tax some of which is used for roads. Mobility scooter riders also pay massive amounts tax some of which is used for roads. Cyclists too. And bikers/scooterists as well. And for that matter pedestrians.

Just saying.

So why do many car drivers (as evidenced by the comments above) think that they are the ones that have priority rights over other users?
I really can't be bothered arguing the toss with a Muppet. Sorry, It's Friday afternoon and I've got better things to do with my time.
Ok... so when the facts are set out you decide to become offensive and take your ball home.

This was an important discussion - and I wanted point out that many car drivers (and I am a car driver) simply adopt a "they don't pay road tax - so they don't have as many rights on the road as we do" position.

That position leads to a troubling attitude from a number of car drivers which causes risk and danger to all road users. (That can be witnessed in your odious comments about obese people on scooters which show a staggering level of ignorance!)

Of course all road users (including mobility scooter riders) should be expected to be safe and courteous to all other road users irrespective of the number of wheels they are using and if they are on no wheels at all. Sadly many of the comments here serve to highlight the problem..

It wasn't splitting hairs and I'm not a muppet.
Most vehicle drivers are effectively subscribers of the road though fuel and excise duty... A mandatory requirement as well as insurance and a licence gained through proven ability of the understanding of highway law...

Other users of the road are not subject to such regulation, registration and costs, thus it is understandable that a majority of drivers get irked at what they often perceive to be complete disregard for highway law by some users on cycles, scooters etc etc... ( Much the same as if you were,say, a fee paying member of a golf club which also allowed other non fee paying people free access to the course.. Naturally you would feel a more primary user of the course...)

Unless regulation is brought in for these other users such as insurance registration etc,I can't really see the problem subsiding...

Slow and small machines do not mix well with large fast ones.. This has to be remembered whilst out on the highway, and is the very reason I stick to cycling away from the roads where possible....
[quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]madsmadsissy[/bold] wrote: The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.[/p][/quote]A bit like car drivers then?[/p][/quote]Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.[/p][/quote]Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads. The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.[/p][/quote]Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance . OK[/p][/quote]Accepted that car drivers pay massive amounts of tax some of which is used for roads. Mobility scooter riders also pay massive amounts tax some of which is used for roads. Cyclists too. And bikers/scooterists as well. And for that matter pedestrians. Just saying. So why do many car drivers (as evidenced by the comments above) think that they are the ones that have priority rights over other users?[/p][/quote]I really can't be bothered arguing the toss with a Muppet. Sorry, It's Friday afternoon and I've got better things to do with my time.[/p][/quote]Ok... so when the facts are set out you decide to become offensive and take your ball home. This was an important discussion - and I wanted point out that many car drivers (and I am a car driver) simply adopt a "they don't pay road tax - so they don't have as many rights on the road as we do" position. That position leads to a troubling attitude from a number of car drivers which causes risk and danger to all road users. (That can be witnessed in your odious comments about obese people on scooters which show a staggering level of ignorance!) Of course all road users (including mobility scooter riders) should be expected to be safe and courteous to all other road users irrespective of the number of wheels they are using and if they are on no wheels at all. Sadly many of the comments here serve to highlight the problem.. It wasn't splitting hairs and I'm not a muppet.[/p][/quote]Most vehicle drivers are effectively subscribers of the road though fuel and excise duty... A mandatory requirement as well as insurance and a licence gained through proven ability of the understanding of highway law... Other users of the road are not subject to such regulation, registration and costs, thus it is understandable that a majority of drivers get irked at what they often perceive to be complete disregard for highway law by some users on cycles, scooters etc etc... ( Much the same as if you were,say, a fee paying member of a golf club which also allowed other non fee paying people free access to the course.. Naturally you would feel a more primary user of the course...) Unless regulation is brought in for these other users such as insurance registration etc,I can't really see the problem subsiding... Slow and small machines do not mix well with large fast ones.. This has to be remembered whilst out on the highway, and is the very reason I stick to cycling away from the roads where possible.... tomtopper

9:50am Sat 2 Mar 13

mark.wilkinson says...

tomtopper wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
madsmadsissy wrote:
The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.
A bit like car drivers then?
Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.
Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads.

The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.
Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance





. OK
Accepted that car drivers pay massive amounts of tax some of which is used for roads. Mobility scooter riders also pay massive amounts tax some of which is used for roads. Cyclists too. And bikers/scooterists as well. And for that matter pedestrians.

Just saying.

So why do many car drivers (as evidenced by the comments above) think that they are the ones that have priority rights over other users?
I really can't be bothered arguing the toss with a Muppet. Sorry, It's Friday afternoon and I've got better things to do with my time.
Ok... so when the facts are set out you decide to become offensive and take your ball home.

This was an important discussion - and I wanted point out that many car drivers (and I am a car driver) simply adopt a "they don't pay road tax - so they don't have as many rights on the road as we do" position.

That position leads to a troubling attitude from a number of car drivers which causes risk and danger to all road users. (That can be witnessed in your odious comments about obese people on scooters which show a staggering level of ignorance!)

Of course all road users (including mobility scooter riders) should be expected to be safe and courteous to all other road users irrespective of the number of wheels they are using and if they are on no wheels at all. Sadly many of the comments here serve to highlight the problem..

It wasn't splitting hairs and I'm not a muppet.
Most vehicle drivers are effectively subscribers of the road though fuel and excise duty... A mandatory requirement as well as insurance and a licence gained through proven ability of the understanding of highway law...

Other users of the road are not subject to such regulation, registration and costs, thus it is understandable that a majority of drivers get irked at what they often perceive to be complete disregard for highway law by some users on cycles, scooters etc etc... ( Much the same as if you were,say, a fee paying member of a golf club which also allowed other non fee paying people free access to the course.. Naturally you would feel a more primary user of the course...)

Unless regulation is brought in for these other users such as insurance registration etc,I can't really see the problem subsiding...

Slow and small machines do not mix well with large fast ones.. This has to be remembered whilst out on the highway, and is the very reason I stick to cycling away from the roads where possible....
Very well put. I totally agree and nice analagy too.
[quote][p][bold]tomtopper[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]madsmadsissy[/bold] wrote: The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.[/p][/quote]A bit like car drivers then?[/p][/quote]Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.[/p][/quote]Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads. The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.[/p][/quote]Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance . OK[/p][/quote]Accepted that car drivers pay massive amounts of tax some of which is used for roads. Mobility scooter riders also pay massive amounts tax some of which is used for roads. Cyclists too. And bikers/scooterists as well. And for that matter pedestrians. Just saying. So why do many car drivers (as evidenced by the comments above) think that they are the ones that have priority rights over other users?[/p][/quote]I really can't be bothered arguing the toss with a Muppet. Sorry, It's Friday afternoon and I've got better things to do with my time.[/p][/quote]Ok... so when the facts are set out you decide to become offensive and take your ball home. This was an important discussion - and I wanted point out that many car drivers (and I am a car driver) simply adopt a "they don't pay road tax - so they don't have as many rights on the road as we do" position. That position leads to a troubling attitude from a number of car drivers which causes risk and danger to all road users. (That can be witnessed in your odious comments about obese people on scooters which show a staggering level of ignorance!) Of course all road users (including mobility scooter riders) should be expected to be safe and courteous to all other road users irrespective of the number of wheels they are using and if they are on no wheels at all. Sadly many of the comments here serve to highlight the problem.. It wasn't splitting hairs and I'm not a muppet.[/p][/quote]Most vehicle drivers are effectively subscribers of the road though fuel and excise duty... A mandatory requirement as well as insurance and a licence gained through proven ability of the understanding of highway law... Other users of the road are not subject to such regulation, registration and costs, thus it is understandable that a majority of drivers get irked at what they often perceive to be complete disregard for highway law by some users on cycles, scooters etc etc... ( Much the same as if you were,say, a fee paying member of a golf club which also allowed other non fee paying people free access to the course.. Naturally you would feel a more primary user of the course...) Unless regulation is brought in for these other users such as insurance registration etc,I can't really see the problem subsiding... Slow and small machines do not mix well with large fast ones.. This has to be remembered whilst out on the highway, and is the very reason I stick to cycling away from the roads where possible....[/p][/quote]Very well put. I totally agree and nice analagy too. mark.wilkinson

12:18am Sun 3 Mar 13

Spy Boy says...

I would go along with a proficiency test for drivers, ID plates and insurance on these vehicles. Some of these people are dangerous, especially in the town centre.
I would go along with a proficiency test for drivers, ID plates and insurance on these vehicles. Some of these people are dangerous, especially in the town centre. Spy Boy

2:50pm Sun 3 Mar 13

Longbowman666 says...

Whilst these scooters have been a good thing for some, other less considerate people abuse them, some even going so far as to use them as 'tanks' in the high streets, driving them directly at people with an arrogance that is breathtaking.

I too have experienced this on more than one occasion, once even to the point of actually having abuse hurled at me by a supposed 'disabled' rider (read for disabled grossly overweight) for daring to be in her way - the fact that she changed her course to come straight into my path seemed not to enter into her logic.

Time perhaps for the actual 'needs' of these people to be assessed, as well as their ability to drive the things!
Whilst these scooters have been a good thing for some, other less considerate people abuse them, some even going so far as to use them as 'tanks' in the high streets, driving them directly at people with an arrogance that is breathtaking. I too have experienced this on more than one occasion, once even to the point of actually having abuse hurled at me by a supposed 'disabled' rider (read for disabled grossly overweight) for daring to be in her way - the fact that she changed her course to come straight into my path seemed not to enter into her logic. Time perhaps for the actual 'needs' of these people to be assessed, as well as their ability to drive the things! Longbowman666

8:57pm Sun 3 Mar 13

P Pinelli says...

mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
mark.wilkinson wrote:
P Pinelli wrote:
madsmadsissy wrote:
The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.
A bit like car drivers then?
Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.
Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads.

The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.
Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance





. OK
Accepted that car drivers pay massive amounts of tax some of which is used for roads. Mobility scooter riders also pay massive amounts tax some of which is used for roads. Cyclists too. And bikers/scooterists as well. And for that matter pedestrians.

Just saying.

So why do many car drivers (as evidenced by the comments above) think that they are the ones that have priority rights over other users?
I really can't be bothered arguing the toss with a Muppet. Sorry, It's Friday afternoon and I've got better things to do with my time.
Ok... so when the facts are set out you decide to become offensive and take your ball home.

This was an important discussion - and I wanted point out that many car drivers (and I am a car driver) simply adopt a "they don't pay road tax - so they don't have as many rights on the road as we do" position.

That position leads to a troubling attitude from a number of car drivers which causes risk and danger to all road users. (That can be witnessed in your odious comments about obese people on scooters which show a staggering level of ignorance!)

Of course all road users (including mobility scooter riders) should be expected to be safe and courteous to all other road users irrespective of the number of wheels they are using and if they are on no wheels at all. Sadly many of the comments here serve to highlight the problem..

It wasn't splitting hairs and I'm not a muppet.
Hey Muppet boy, Are you seriously suggesting that morbidly obese people don't use scooters, and that based on that my comment was ignorant and odious?....They're out there trundling around with their huge girths for all to witness.

You were/still are/and will continue splitting hairs because you're a prat and a Muppet.
Whatever.

Small world isn't it?
[quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mark.wilkinson[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]P Pinelli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]madsmadsissy[/bold] wrote: The fact that they are using a mobility scooter does not give them the God given right to do as they please.I've seen some ploughing through pedestrians. Some (not all) are an absolute menace out and about. Common sense should be part of the ability tests, oh, and common courtesy.[/p][/quote]A bit like car drivers then?[/p][/quote]Nothing like car drivers. Car drivers pay a huge premium to use the roads. Mobility scooter riders do not. The two cannot be compared in any way shape it form.[/p][/quote]Wrong - car drivers don't pay a huge premium to use the roads. The cost of road building and maintenance comes out of general taxation. Mobility scooter riders pay tax.[/p][/quote]Stop splitting hairs. Car drivers pay massive amounts of tax, some of which is used for road building/maintenance . OK[/p][/quote]Accepted that car drivers pay massive amounts of tax some of which is used for roads. Mobility scooter riders also pay massive amounts tax some of which is used for roads. Cyclists too. And bikers/scooterists as well. And for that matter pedestrians. Just saying. So why do many car drivers (as evidenced by the comments above) think that they are the ones that have priority rights over other users?[/p][/quote]I really can't be bothered arguing the toss with a Muppet. Sorry, It's Friday afternoon and I've got better things to do with my time.[/p][/quote]Ok... so when the facts are set out you decide to become offensive and take your ball home. This was an important discussion - and I wanted point out that many car drivers (and I am a car driver) simply adopt a "they don't pay road tax - so they don't have as many rights on the road as we do" position. That position leads to a troubling attitude from a number of car drivers which causes risk and danger to all road users. (That can be witnessed in your odious comments about obese people on scooters which show a staggering level of ignorance!) Of course all road users (including mobility scooter riders) should be expected to be safe and courteous to all other road users irrespective of the number of wheels they are using and if they are on no wheels at all. Sadly many of the comments here serve to highlight the problem.. It wasn't splitting hairs and I'm not a muppet.[/p][/quote]Hey Muppet boy, Are you seriously suggesting that morbidly obese people don't use scooters, and that based on that my comment was ignorant and odious?....They're out there trundling around with their huge girths for all to witness. You were/still are/and will continue splitting hairs because you're a prat and a Muppet.[/p][/quote]Whatever. Small world isn't it? P Pinelli

4:58pm Mon 4 Mar 13

fishpond says...

As I have already stated as a scooter user for over 10 years I strongly feel that the stupid minority get the majority a bad name.
Reading some of the above comments what seemed intelligent comment appears to have largely degenerated into a third rate muppet show. Most scooter users have been and in many cases like me are still car drivers which of course helps. I feel that what is lacking is some joined up thinking between families,carers and doctors as to what a user requires, I note that only scooter users are mentioned however in the case of rather more disabled users power wheelchairs are more maneuverable and appropriate. The majority of users have help either through families or cares etc and most receive help in keeping users as independent as possible I believe that more cooperation would help to keep both users and pedestrians save.
As I have already stated as a scooter user for over 10 years I strongly feel that the stupid minority get the majority a bad name. Reading some of the above comments what seemed intelligent comment appears to have largely degenerated into a third rate muppet show. Most scooter users have been and in many cases like me are still car drivers which of course helps. I feel that what is lacking is some joined up thinking between families,carers and doctors as to what a user requires, I note that only scooter users are mentioned however in the case of rather more disabled users power wheelchairs are more maneuverable and appropriate. The majority of users have help either through families or cares etc and most receive help in keeping users as independent as possible I believe that more cooperation would help to keep both users and pedestrians save. fishpond

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