Ministers have "blood on their hands" over benefits tests, say MPs

5:23pm Thursday 17th January 2013 in News Photograph of the Author By Robert Merrick, Parliamentary Correspondent

MINISTERS have "blood on their hands" after the suicides of sick people wrongly found fit for work after badly-flawed tests, a North-East MP said yesterday.

Kevan Jones, the North Durham MP, attacked the failure to reform widely-criticised assessments of incapacity benefit (IB) claimants - asking how ministers could have clear consciences.

Speaking in a Commons debate, the Labour was joined by colleagues Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) and Iain Wright (Hartlepool) in condemning the process, run by private firm Atos Healthcare.

Over three years, Atos will test about three-quarters of the 122,000 people in the North-East and North Yorkshire who claim IB, a legacy of the industrial meltdown of the 1980s.

But, across Britain, 40 per cent of appeals are successful. Some claimants have been stripped of disability benefits, only to die of serious medical conditions soon afterwards - and there have been reports of suicides.

Yesterday, the three MPs revealed numerous worrying cases of constituents, including:

* A 59-year-old with severe schizophrenia told to "retrain as a security guard because that was the last job he did ten years ago".

* A man with no legs told to undertake an 80-mile round trip for his work test.

* A cancer-victim judged fit for work, even before the results of an operation came through.

* A 51-year-old woman judged fit for work who, because of a bowel disease, "soils herself on a daily basis, requiring a change of clothes".

* A man in his late 50s judged fit for work, who - because of a brain tumour - is unable to "stand or walk for any length of time without feeling dizzy or in pain".

* A woman judged fit for work despite Crohn's disease, leading to severe diarrhoea, incontinence and abdominal pain, who was told she "could wear a nappy for work".

Mr Jones said: "People have taken their own lives because of this system.

It is not too strong to say that this Coalition government has blood on their hands for the deaths of those individuals."

Condemning the "crass, insensitive, unprofessional" tests, Mr Wright said: "Several of my constituents have told me they were asked by the person carrying out the assessment whether they just sit around and watch Jeremy Kyle all day."

Ms Goodman acknowledged the work tests had been introduced by Labour, saying: "Because of the way this has been run, I am sorry."

In reply, County Durham-born work minister Mark Hoban insisted that independent reviews of the 'work capability assessment' (WCA) had found "real progress" in improving them.

And he sparked criticism by suggesting the media was guilty of peddling "incorrect anecdotal information and total myths" about the tests.

However, Mr Hoban did pledge that further changes would be made if necessary and pointed to the appointment of 60 'mental health champions'

to help with assessments.

Comments (65)

7:04pm Thu 17 Jan 13

MSG says...

"Work Tests" Introduced by the Labour Party !!!!!!!!!
"Work Tests" Introduced by the Labour Party !!!!!!!!! MSG

7:58pm Thu 17 Jan 13

greenfinger says...

everyone must know someone who milked this system. it went on for far too long and has become unaffordable. its those milkers not the government that should feel the guilt.
everyone must know someone who milked this system. it went on for far too long and has become unaffordable. its those milkers not the government that should feel the guilt. greenfinger

8:47pm Thu 17 Jan 13

fracker says...

msg,Yes labour introduced the test,and the boundries were changed by the present govrnment,Greenfinge
r no you are wrong the guilty people are the government for classing seriously ill people in the boat as con artists who fake illness to get benefits,they have blood on their hands they will never wash of,like lady McBETH and will hopefully suffer the same fate.
msg,Yes labour introduced the test,and the boundries were changed by the present govrnment,Greenfinge r no you are wrong the guilty people are the government for classing seriously ill people in the boat as con artists who fake illness to get benefits,they have blood on their hands they will never wash of,like lady McBETH and will hopefully suffer the same fate. fracker

8:47pm Thu 17 Jan 13

fracker says...

msg,Yes labour introduced the test,and the boundries were changed by the present govrnment,Greenfinge
r no you are wrong the guilty people are the government for classing seriously ill people in the boat as con artists who fake illness to get benefits,they have blood on their hands they will never wash of,like lady McBETH and will hopefully suffer the same fate.
msg,Yes labour introduced the test,and the boundries were changed by the present govrnment,Greenfinge r no you are wrong the guilty people are the government for classing seriously ill people in the boat as con artists who fake illness to get benefits,they have blood on their hands they will never wash of,like lady McBETH and will hopefully suffer the same fate. fracker

10:55am Fri 18 Jan 13

simmo707 says...

Greenfinger you have a somewhat twisted attitude to life with your ridiculous comment - with your train of thought 10,000 deaths are a consequence of a flawed Government policy but its ok to catch benefit cheats using this draconian method through WC assessments
Greenfinger you have a somewhat twisted attitude to life with your ridiculous comment - with your train of thought 10,000 deaths are a consequence of a flawed Government policy but its ok to catch benefit cheats using this draconian method through WC assessments simmo707

12:30pm Fri 18 Jan 13

loan_star says...

simmo707 wrote:
Greenfinger you have a somewhat twisted attitude to life with your ridiculous comment - with your train of thought 10,000 deaths are a consequence of a flawed Government policy but its ok to catch benefit cheats using this draconian method through WC assessments
10000 deaths?
[quote][p][bold]simmo707[/bold] wrote: Greenfinger you have a somewhat twisted attitude to life with your ridiculous comment - with your train of thought 10,000 deaths are a consequence of a flawed Government policy but its ok to catch benefit cheats using this draconian method through WC assessments[/p][/quote]10000 deaths? loan_star

1:55pm Fri 18 Jan 13

st-george1 says...

We have become a Labour-one-Nation of cry-babies who whether they win, lose or draw life’s short straw, or stub their toe, its all because we lost our backbone a very long time ago I'm afraid …about 1997 to be precise and after the long disastrous year of Bliar’s people, we have learned Labour-is-the-Party that always betrays the most vulnerable in our society and creates a less equal society, widening the gap between rich and poor and the fact that so many are still voting for Labour Governments and Labours Councillors who betrayed Britain, IS a terrible indictment upon what we are now !
There are times when I wish the North East Labour MPs and Councillors would engage their brain before opening their mouths … lies and innuendos and chasing brownie-points, it’s embarrassing, a bit like-expenses-chasin
g-people being economical with the truth, creating the impression that there’s something to hide and questions whether they are fit and proper people to be employed in public office …
Surely its time for the benefit-chasing-clai
mants-cheats to start taking responsibility for themselves first !
We have become a Labour-one-Nation of cry-babies who whether they win, lose or draw life’s short straw, or stub their toe, its all because we lost our backbone a very long time ago I'm afraid …about 1997 to be precise and after the long disastrous year of Bliar’s people, we have learned Labour-is-the-Party that always betrays the most vulnerable in our society and creates a less equal society, widening the gap between rich and poor and the fact that so many are still voting for Labour Governments and Labours Councillors who betrayed Britain, IS a terrible indictment upon what we are now ! There are times when I wish the North East Labour MPs and Councillors would engage their brain before opening their mouths … lies and innuendos and chasing brownie-points, it’s embarrassing, a bit like-expenses-chasin g-people being economical with the truth, creating the impression that there’s something to hide and questions whether they are fit and proper people to be employed in public office … Surely its time for the benefit-chasing-clai mants-cheats to start taking responsibility for themselves first ! st-george1

2:15pm Fri 18 Jan 13

loonyleft says...

George, Who is talking about benefit cheats? the people that were talked about in the report have serious medical conditions,many have died as a direct result of being persicuted bythis government,and atos,don't class greedymp's with these people who are so disabled and sick they will never be fit enough for work.
George, Who is talking about benefit cheats? the people that were talked about in the report have serious medical conditions,many have died as a direct result of being persicuted bythis government,and atos,don't class greedymp's with these people who are so disabled and sick they will never be fit enough for work. loonyleft

2:42pm Fri 18 Jan 13

Lifetime Townie says...

"""MINISTERS have "blood on their hands" after the suicides of sick people wrongly found fit for work after badly-flawed tests, a North-East MP said yesterday."""
This sounds like some dramatic comment made for political reasons rather common sense.
"""MINISTERS have "blood on their hands" after the suicides of sick people wrongly found fit for work after badly-flawed tests, a North-East MP said yesterday.""" This sounds like some dramatic comment made for political reasons rather common sense. Lifetime Townie

4:44pm Fri 18 Jan 13

loan_star says...

Talking about politicians with blood on their hands, what about Blair and Brown and their illegal war? Also the fact they forced a advisor into suicide by making him look a liar when all the time he had had been truthful.
Talking about politicians with blood on their hands, what about Blair and Brown and their illegal war? Also the fact they forced a advisor into suicide by making him look a liar when all the time he had had been truthful. loan_star

4:50pm Fri 18 Jan 13

Lifetime Townie says...

loan_star wrote:
Talking about politicians with blood on their hands, what about Blair and Brown and their illegal war? Also the fact they forced a advisor into suicide by making him look a liar when all the time he had had been truthful.
Spot on, perhaps these two are above the law
[quote][p][bold]loan_star[/bold] wrote: Talking about politicians with blood on their hands, what about Blair and Brown and their illegal war? Also the fact they forced a advisor into suicide by making him look a liar when all the time he had had been truthful.[/p][/quote]Spot on, perhaps these two are above the law Lifetime Townie

5:14pm Fri 18 Jan 13

greenfinger says...

simmo707 wrote:
Greenfinger you have a somewhat twisted attitude to life with your ridiculous comment - with your train of thought 10,000 deaths are a consequence of a flawed Government policy but its ok to catch benefit cheats using this draconian method through WC assessments
where did you get that 10,000 deaths figure from please? thats an appalling statistic! i must look into this further. 10,000 in a amazing amount of deaths, shocking. or have you just made it up? the above article doesn't mention one.
[quote][p][bold]simmo707[/bold] wrote: Greenfinger you have a somewhat twisted attitude to life with your ridiculous comment - with your train of thought 10,000 deaths are a consequence of a flawed Government policy but its ok to catch benefit cheats using this draconian method through WC assessments[/p][/quote]where did you get that 10,000 deaths figure from please? thats an appalling statistic! i must look into this further. 10,000 in a amazing amount of deaths, shocking. or have you just made it up? the above article doesn't mention one. greenfinger

7:10pm Fri 18 Jan 13

the-big-yin says...

greenfinger wrote:
everyone must know someone who milked this system. it went on for far too long and has become unaffordable. its those milkers not the government that should feel the guilt.
i agree there are too many scroungers who have never worked and are bluffing and pulling the wool over peoples eyes...
yes there are people who are truly ill...but for 1 person who is really ill there are ten who are lying bluffing rogues.....
[quote][p][bold]greenfinger[/bold] wrote: everyone must know someone who milked this system. it went on for far too long and has become unaffordable. its those milkers not the government that should feel the guilt.[/p][/quote]i agree there are too many scroungers who have never worked and are bluffing and pulling the wool over peoples eyes... yes there are people who are truly ill...but for 1 person who is really ill there are ten who are lying bluffing rogues..... the-big-yin

7:15pm Fri 18 Jan 13

the-big-yin says...

simmo707 wrote:
Greenfinger you have a somewhat twisted attitude to life with your ridiculous comment - with your train of thought 10,000 deaths are a consequence of a flawed Government policy but its ok to catch benefit cheats using this draconian method through WC assessments
anyone called in for an assessment should be allowed to take their medical records with them...then they would be assessed fairly...
you are allowed access and copies of your records when you need them....
[quote][p][bold]simmo707[/bold] wrote: Greenfinger you have a somewhat twisted attitude to life with your ridiculous comment - with your train of thought 10,000 deaths are a consequence of a flawed Government policy but its ok to catch benefit cheats using this draconian method through WC assessments[/p][/quote]anyone called in for an assessment should be allowed to take their medical records with them...then they would be assessed fairly... you are allowed access and copies of your records when you need them.... the-big-yin

10:31pm Fri 18 Jan 13

Heretic says...

Pathetic look at the lot of you, drivelling on about politics, as if politicians are the ones who can solve things. Politicians are merely puppets of the ruling elite, put in office to serve the agenda of the elite. That agenda does not and never will, care about the ordinary citizen no matter which party is in power. The sooner people realise this and stop bickering over, and supporting a system that has only the interests of the elite at heart - the better.
Pathetic look at the lot of you, drivelling on about politics, as if politicians are the ones who can solve things. Politicians are merely puppets of the ruling elite, put in office to serve the agenda of the elite. That agenda does not and never will, care about the ordinary citizen no matter which party is in power. The sooner people realise this and stop bickering over, and supporting a system that has only the interests of the elite at heart - the better. Heretic

3:29am Sat 19 Jan 13

dellorri says...

greenfinger wrote:
simmo707 wrote:
Greenfinger you have a somewhat twisted attitude to life with your ridiculous comment - with your train of thought 10,000 deaths are a consequence of a flawed Government policy but its ok to catch benefit cheats using this draconian method through WC assessments
where did you get that 10,000 deaths figure from please? thats an appalling statistic! i must look into this further. 10,000 in a amazing amount of deaths, shocking. or have you just made it up? the above article doesn't mention one.
It's actually 10,632 deaths, this is the amount of people who have died between 2010 and now within six weeks of being declared FIT FOR WORK by ATOS, oh and if you want to know where the figures came from, they were released by the DWP after a freedom of information request by disabled people against cuts DPAC for short a disabilities rights group.
[quote][p][bold]greenfinger[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]simmo707[/bold] wrote: Greenfinger you have a somewhat twisted attitude to life with your ridiculous comment - with your train of thought 10,000 deaths are a consequence of a flawed Government policy but its ok to catch benefit cheats using this draconian method through WC assessments[/p][/quote]where did you get that 10,000 deaths figure from please? thats an appalling statistic! i must look into this further. 10,000 in a amazing amount of deaths, shocking. or have you just made it up? the above article doesn't mention one.[/p][/quote]It's actually 10,632 deaths, this is the amount of people who have died between 2010 and now within six weeks of being declared FIT FOR WORK by ATOS, oh and if you want to know where the figures came from, they were released by the DWP after a freedom of information request by disabled people against cuts DPAC for short a disabilities rights group. dellorri

9:56am Sat 19 Jan 13

greenfinger says...

dellorri wrote:
greenfinger wrote:
simmo707 wrote:
Greenfinger you have a somewhat twisted attitude to life with your ridiculous comment - with your train of thought 10,000 deaths are a consequence of a flawed Government policy but its ok to catch benefit cheats using this draconian method through WC assessments
where did you get that 10,000 deaths figure from please? thats an appalling statistic! i must look into this further. 10,000 in a amazing amount of deaths, shocking. or have you just made it up? the above article doesn't mention one.
It's actually 10,632 deaths, this is the amount of people who have died between 2010 and now within six weeks of being declared FIT FOR WORK by ATOS, oh and if you want to know where the figures came from, they were released by the DWP after a freedom of information request by disabled people against cuts DPAC for short a disabilities rights group.
i still fail to see the link between the deaths and the work assessment? how can doing a work assessment make you die, do they do them in or something? not every person with something wrong with them is unfit for work. it clear me that 99% would have died if they were in the system or not.
[quote][p][bold]dellorri[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]greenfinger[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]simmo707[/bold] wrote: Greenfinger you have a somewhat twisted attitude to life with your ridiculous comment - with your train of thought 10,000 deaths are a consequence of a flawed Government policy but its ok to catch benefit cheats using this draconian method through WC assessments[/p][/quote]where did you get that 10,000 deaths figure from please? thats an appalling statistic! i must look into this further. 10,000 in a amazing amount of deaths, shocking. or have you just made it up? the above article doesn't mention one.[/p][/quote]It's actually 10,632 deaths, this is the amount of people who have died between 2010 and now within six weeks of being declared FIT FOR WORK by ATOS, oh and if you want to know where the figures came from, they were released by the DWP after a freedom of information request by disabled people against cuts DPAC for short a disabilities rights group.[/p][/quote]i still fail to see the link between the deaths and the work assessment? how can doing a work assessment make you die, do they do them in or something? not every person with something wrong with them is unfit for work. it clear me that 99% would have died if they were in the system or not. greenfinger

10:41am Sat 19 Jan 13

simmo707 says...

Greenfinger to fail to see anything beyond your own reasoning on anything by the sounds of it - if you were that interested in the issues brought up you would do some web research on them and not just make spurious comments against genuine concerns for the victims of this abusive system
Greenfinger to fail to see anything beyond your own reasoning on anything by the sounds of it - if you were that interested in the issues brought up you would do some web research on them and not just make spurious comments against genuine concerns for the victims of this abusive system simmo707

12:12pm Sat 19 Jan 13

greenfinger says...

i like many others are fully behind the government on this one.
i like many others are fully behind the government on this one. greenfinger

1:27pm Sat 19 Jan 13

greenfinger says...

simmo707 people are allowed a different opinion to yours you know. it's not a crime and the last time i checked we still had freedom of speech and expression. it seems to me like everyone must come round to your way of thinking or they're some sort of hater/s. you'd do well to bully me out of my way thinking.
simmo707 people are allowed a different opinion to yours you know. it's not a crime and the last time i checked we still had freedom of speech and expression. it seems to me like everyone must come round to your way of thinking or they're some sort of hater/s. you'd do well to bully me out of my way thinking. greenfinger

1:36pm Sat 19 Jan 13

simmo707 says...

Research before you comment Greenfinger - or engage brain before you open your mouth ,successive Governments are to blame for the ills of the country -Cameron stated in Parliament the other day vote Tory to get out of the EU or Labour to stay it it - another broken promise in the making
Research before you comment Greenfinger - or engage brain before you open your mouth ,successive Governments are to blame for the ills of the country -Cameron stated in Parliament the other day vote Tory to get out of the EU or Labour to stay it it - another broken promise in the making simmo707

5:33pm Sat 19 Jan 13

Silkie says...

Here is the Atos debate in Parliament which will explain just how genuinely disabled are being treated. To vilify the disabled is genuinely heartless and I hope those who do never end being disable themselves.
It can happen so quickly and it is surprising how few friends you really have when it happens. Intolerance and discrimination is rife in the comments above. http://goo.gl/RkrZh

http://www.theyworkf
oryou.com/debates/?i
d=2013-01-17a.1050.0
&s=speaker%3A10964#g
1080.0
Here is the Atos debate in Parliament which will explain just how genuinely disabled are being treated. To vilify the disabled is genuinely heartless and I hope those who do never end being disable themselves. It can happen so quickly and it is surprising how few friends you really have when it happens. Intolerance and discrimination is rife in the comments above. http://goo.gl/RkrZh http://www.theyworkf oryou.com/debates/?i d=2013-01-17a.1050.0 &s=speaker%3A10964#g 1080.0 Silkie

5:45pm Sat 19 Jan 13

greenfinger says...

simmo707 wrote:
Research before you comment Greenfinger - or engage brain before you open your mouth ,successive Governments are to blame for the ills of the country -Cameron stated in Parliament the other day vote Tory to get out of the EU or Labour to stay it it - another broken promise in the making
they you go again lol, you just cannot help yourself can you. dont worry everyone will come around to your way of thinking, not! now you getting political for what reason? i'm coming to the conclusion you're a wannabe bully. your way or no way? unreal
[quote][p][bold]simmo707[/bold] wrote: Research before you comment Greenfinger - or engage brain before you open your mouth ,successive Governments are to blame for the ills of the country -Cameron stated in Parliament the other day vote Tory to get out of the EU or Labour to stay it it - another broken promise in the making[/p][/quote]they you go again lol, you just cannot help yourself can you. dont worry everyone will come around to your way of thinking, not! now you getting political for what reason? i'm coming to the conclusion you're a wannabe bully. your way or no way? unreal greenfinger

5:46pm Sat 19 Jan 13

simmo707 says...

greenfinger wrote:
simmo707 people are allowed a different opinion to yours you know. it's not a crime and the last time i checked we still had freedom of speech and expression. it seems to me like everyone must come round to your way of thinking or they're some sort of hater/s. you'd do well to bully me out of my way thinking.
Have a look at my website hopefully its unbiased www.brokenbritainund
ertories.com
[quote][p][bold]greenfinger[/bold] wrote: simmo707 people are allowed a different opinion to yours you know. it's not a crime and the last time i checked we still had freedom of speech and expression. it seems to me like everyone must come round to your way of thinking or they're some sort of hater/s. you'd do well to bully me out of my way thinking.[/p][/quote]Have a look at my website hopefully its unbiased www.brokenbritainund ertories.com simmo707

5:48pm Sat 19 Jan 13

greenfinger says...

no i wont, you're just spamming now.
no i wont, you're just spamming now. greenfinger

5:49pm Sat 19 Jan 13

simmo707 says...

greenfinger wrote:
simmo707 wrote:
Research before you comment Greenfinger - or engage brain before you open your mouth ,successive Governments are to blame for the ills of the country -Cameron stated in Parliament the other day vote Tory to get out of the EU or Labour to stay it it - another broken promise in the making
they you go again lol, you just cannot help yourself can you. dont worry everyone will come around to your way of thinking, not! now you getting political for what reason? i'm coming to the conclusion you're a wannabe bully. your way or no way? unreal
HA HA Shut up sheep not interested in a debate with you ,your bias is so evident
[quote][p][bold]greenfinger[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]simmo707[/bold] wrote: Research before you comment Greenfinger - or engage brain before you open your mouth ,successive Governments are to blame for the ills of the country -Cameron stated in Parliament the other day vote Tory to get out of the EU or Labour to stay it it - another broken promise in the making[/p][/quote]they you go again lol, you just cannot help yourself can you. dont worry everyone will come around to your way of thinking, not! now you getting political for what reason? i'm coming to the conclusion you're a wannabe bully. your way or no way? unreal[/p][/quote]HA HA Shut up sheep not interested in a debate with you ,your bias is so evident simmo707

6:34pm Sat 19 Jan 13

Silkie says...

simmo707 wrote:
Thanks Silkie but I have all the relevant information on my website
www.brokenbritainund

ertories.com
Hi simmo707, it was specifically directed at greenfinger but I see he's not of sound mind by his last comment, so one needn't waste time on him. Here is another sad and poignant blog which is heart rending. Take care and keep up the good work!!

http://dwpnegligence
.wordpress.com/
[quote][p][bold]simmo707[/bold] wrote: Thanks Silkie but I have all the relevant information on my website www.brokenbritainund ertories.com[/p][/quote]Hi simmo707, it was specifically directed at greenfinger but I see he's not of sound mind by his last comment, so one needn't waste time on him. Here is another sad and poignant blog which is heart rending. Take care and keep up the good work!! http://dwpnegligence .wordpress.com/ Silkie

7:04pm Sat 19 Jan 13

fracker says...

Loan star,The iraq war is a separate subject,that in no way can be put forward as an excuse for abusing sick and disabled people. In the iraq war at least the armed forces were fit and able bodied,they were trained to fight,and they knew what they were getting into.That is more than can be said for all the people who have died worrying wether they could manage while waiting to reapply for there benefits,but of course tory supporters,just like tory ministers will just turn a blind eye,after all the sick people who have died can't vote against th e tories,but their friends and relatives can!!!
Loan star,The iraq war is a separate subject,that in no way can be put forward as an excuse for abusing sick and disabled people. In the iraq war at least the armed forces were fit and able bodied,they were trained to fight,and they knew what they were getting into.That is more than can be said for all the people who have died worrying wether they could manage while waiting to reapply for there benefits,but of course tory supporters,just like tory ministers will just turn a blind eye,after all the sick people who have died can't vote against th e tories,but their friends and relatives can!!! fracker

7:09pm Sat 19 Jan 13

simmo707 says...

Having just read the blog you have my deepest sympathy and I assure you I can appreciate the turmoil the condition has caused for you and your partner but to have to tolerate the whole ATOS and DWP fiasco is beyond comprehension .I know it is of little comfort but do believe me when I say you having the backing of myself and any other organisation related to these issues .Please do not feel alone the fight is marching on .Nigel
Having just read the blog you have my deepest sympathy and I assure you I can appreciate the turmoil the condition has caused for you and your partner but to have to tolerate the whole ATOS and DWP fiasco is beyond comprehension .I know it is of little comfort but do believe me when I say you having the backing of myself and any other organisation related to these issues .Please do not feel alone the fight is marching on .Nigel simmo707

10:20pm Sat 19 Jan 13

IanfromCrook says...

Lifetime Townie wrote:
loan_star wrote:
Talking about politicians with blood on their hands, what about Blair and Brown and their illegal war? Also the fact they forced a advisor into suicide by making him look a liar when all the time he had had been truthful.
Spot on, perhaps these two are above the law
There are two reasons why Labour lost:-
1. Banking crisis...........Tor
ies spin that Labour created it was bought by some naive people.
2. The Iraq war.

The only party that would have made different decisions on these two points is a party very much to the left of labour (Kinnock's Labour perhaps). If you think that the Tories would have made different decisions you need to try and find your way back from cloud cuckoo.
[quote][p][bold]Lifetime Townie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loan_star[/bold] wrote: Talking about politicians with blood on their hands, what about Blair and Brown and their illegal war? Also the fact they forced a advisor into suicide by making him look a liar when all the time he had had been truthful.[/p][/quote]Spot on, perhaps these two are above the law[/p][/quote]There are two reasons why Labour lost:- 1. Banking crisis...........Tor ies spin that Labour created it was bought by some naive people. 2. The Iraq war. The only party that would have made different decisions on these two points is a party very much to the left of labour (Kinnock's Labour perhaps). If you think that the Tories would have made different decisions you need to try and find your way back from cloud cuckoo. IanfromCrook

8:44am Sun 20 Jan 13

greenfinger says...

your money is getting cut and just accept it. i'm clearly not of sound mind conversing with a pair of idiots. the majority of working people support the government on this so you'll have to learn to adapt, unlucky.with all the services they get access to for free i've always wondered why "disabled" people needed more money to live on anyway. free medication, free care and the likes! vote torie next time and hope they win outright. that'll be good. :-) happy days
your money is getting cut and just accept it. i'm clearly not of sound mind conversing with a pair of idiots. the majority of working people support the government on this so you'll have to learn to adapt, unlucky.with all the services they get access to for free i've always wondered why "disabled" people needed more money to live on anyway. free medication, free care and the likes! vote torie next time and hope they win outright. that'll be good. :-) happy days greenfinger

9:55am Sun 20 Jan 13

johnny_p says...

Heretic wrote:
Pathetic look at the lot of you, drivelling on about politics, as if politicians are the ones who can solve things. Politicians are merely puppets of the ruling elite, put in office to serve the agenda of the elite. That agenda does not and never will, care about the ordinary citizen no matter which party is in power. The sooner people realise this and stop bickering over, and supporting a system that has only the interests of the elite at heart - the better.
Too many people here acting like helpless, needy children who rely on The State for everything- cradle to grave. Big babies who can't act, think or find proper work without their beloved Labour party spoon-feeding every wish and desire. Thoughtless, weak and hapless souls who believe government has a bottomless pit of money they can all delve into.

Funny they don't all want to move to North Korea though isn't it.....
[quote][p][bold]Heretic[/bold] wrote: Pathetic look at the lot of you, drivelling on about politics, as if politicians are the ones who can solve things. Politicians are merely puppets of the ruling elite, put in office to serve the agenda of the elite. That agenda does not and never will, care about the ordinary citizen no matter which party is in power. The sooner people realise this and stop bickering over, and supporting a system that has only the interests of the elite at heart - the better.[/p][/quote]Too many people here acting like helpless, needy children who rely on The State for everything- cradle to grave. Big babies who can't act, think or find proper work without their beloved Labour party spoon-feeding every wish and desire. Thoughtless, weak and hapless souls who believe government has a bottomless pit of money they can all delve into. Funny they don't all want to move to North Korea though isn't it..... johnny_p

10:03am Sun 20 Jan 13

johnny_p says...

fracker wrote:
Loan star,The iraq war is a separate subject,that in no way can be put forward as an excuse for abusing sick and disabled people. In the iraq war at least the armed forces were fit and able bodied,they were trained to fight,and they knew what they were getting into.That is more than can be said for all the people who have died worrying wether they could manage while waiting to reapply for there benefits,but of course tory supporters,just like tory ministers will just turn a blind eye,after all the sick people who have died can't vote against th e tories,but their friends and relatives can!!!
Aaaaah! Defend Labour at all costs.

"In the iraq war at least the armed forces were fit and able bodied,they were trained to fight,and they knew what they were getting into"

Well they were fit and able bodied before they started this un-winnable war. It goes without saying that we wouldn't have had so many ex forces personnel seriously injured and needing medical attention if it wasn't for Tony Bliar.

I can tell you now you wouldn't have been defending the Iraq/Afghanistan invasion if it had been started during a Conservative administration.

Really listen to what your saying- stop defending the indefensible.
[quote][p][bold]fracker[/bold] wrote: Loan star,The iraq war is a separate subject,that in no way can be put forward as an excuse for abusing sick and disabled people. In the iraq war at least the armed forces were fit and able bodied,they were trained to fight,and they knew what they were getting into.That is more than can be said for all the people who have died worrying wether they could manage while waiting to reapply for there benefits,but of course tory supporters,just like tory ministers will just turn a blind eye,after all the sick people who have died can't vote against th e tories,but their friends and relatives can!!![/p][/quote]Aaaaah! Defend Labour at all costs. "In the iraq war at least the armed forces were fit and able bodied,they were trained to fight,and they knew what they were getting into" Well they were fit and able bodied before they started this un-winnable war. It goes without saying that we wouldn't have had so many ex forces personnel seriously injured and needing medical attention if it wasn't for Tony Bliar. I can tell you now you wouldn't have been defending the Iraq/Afghanistan invasion if it had been started during a Conservative administration. Really listen to what your saying- stop defending the indefensible. johnny_p

10:29am Sun 20 Jan 13

simmo707 says...

BROKEN BRIRAIN UNDER TORIES – CONTINUATION OF BLAIRS SPIN
Where were our MP’s when Blair was having private meetings with UNUM the backbone of ATOS .How can one man hijack an entire Political Party in power to the detriment of the Public .It is obvious that the Labour Cabinet had no say concerning the Draconian Welfare Reform issues that dog the vulnerable today .Clegg and Cameron are mere clones of the former totalitarian Blair .
Cameron has shied away from the issue of Welfare and left it to attack dogs ID Smith and Grayling both liars and public purse thieves .
The Tories are so embroiled in spin their Policies are feeble rhetoric to mask the agenda of dismantling the NHS ,the Welfare State and Freedom of speech .Cameron has lied on an EU referendum once ,he now proposes to try to coerce the public he will hold one when voted in office for another term .Don’t be taken in by a party that has over 10,000 deaths on its hands through its not fit for purpose WCA’s carried out by ATOS .www.brokenbritainun
dertories.com
BROKEN BRIRAIN UNDER TORIES – CONTINUATION OF BLAIRS SPIN Where were our MP’s when Blair was having private meetings with UNUM the backbone of ATOS .How can one man hijack an entire Political Party in power to the detriment of the Public .It is obvious that the Labour Cabinet had no say concerning the Draconian Welfare Reform issues that dog the vulnerable today .Clegg and Cameron are mere clones of the former totalitarian Blair . Cameron has shied away from the issue of Welfare and left it to attack dogs ID Smith and Grayling both liars and public purse thieves . The Tories are so embroiled in spin their Policies are feeble rhetoric to mask the agenda of dismantling the NHS ,the Welfare State and Freedom of speech .Cameron has lied on an EU referendum once ,he now proposes to try to coerce the public he will hold one when voted in office for another term .Don’t be taken in by a party that has over 10,000 deaths on its hands through its not fit for purpose WCA’s carried out by ATOS .www.brokenbritainun dertories.com simmo707

11:02am Sun 20 Jan 13

greenfinger says...

Britain was broken under labour! i look forward to the end of the welfare state and the nhs. i dont mind paying for anything i use tbh. i mean whats wrong with paying for things with your own money? only a labour voter expects things for free.
Britain was broken under labour! i look forward to the end of the welfare state and the nhs. i dont mind paying for anything i use tbh. i mean whats wrong with paying for things with your own money? only a labour voter expects things for free. greenfinger

12:19pm Sun 20 Jan 13

fracker says...

Greenfinger, the nhs is not free you pay for it out of your tax,the welfare system was brought in because not everybody can afford hospital care,and by paying a bit of your tax towards the cost it helps every body, even benefits are taxable income nowadays.I'm glad you are so well of that you can afford any future medical costs,but not everyone is so fortunate.
Greenfinger, the nhs is not free you pay for it out of your tax,the welfare system was brought in because not everybody can afford hospital care,and by paying a bit of your tax towards the cost it helps every body, even benefits are taxable income nowadays.I'm glad you are so well of that you can afford any future medical costs,but not everyone is so fortunate. fracker

12:19pm Sun 20 Jan 13

fracker says...

Greenfinger, the nhs is not free you pay for it out of your tax,the welfare system was brought in because not everybody can afford hospital care,and by paying a bit of your tax towards the cost it helps every body, even benefits are taxable income nowadays.I'm glad you are so well of that you can afford any future medical costs,but not everyone is so fortunate.
Greenfinger, the nhs is not free you pay for it out of your tax,the welfare system was brought in because not everybody can afford hospital care,and by paying a bit of your tax towards the cost it helps every body, even benefits are taxable income nowadays.I'm glad you are so well of that you can afford any future medical costs,but not everyone is so fortunate. fracker

12:28pm Sun 20 Jan 13

greenfinger says...

fracker wrote:
Greenfinger, the nhs is not free you pay for it out of your tax,the welfare system was brought in because not everybody can afford hospital care,and by paying a bit of your tax towards the cost it helps every body, even benefits are taxable income nowadays.I'm glad you are so well of that you can afford any future medical costs,but not everyone is so fortunate.
well of? clearly enough didn't go into education!
[quote][p][bold]fracker[/bold] wrote: Greenfinger, the nhs is not free you pay for it out of your tax,the welfare system was brought in because not everybody can afford hospital care,and by paying a bit of your tax towards the cost it helps every body, even benefits are taxable income nowadays.I'm glad you are so well of that you can afford any future medical costs,but not everyone is so fortunate.[/p][/quote]well of? clearly enough didn't go into education! greenfinger

12:29pm Sun 20 Jan 13

fracker says...

Jonny p, Under a labour government injured ex servicemen wouldn;t be having their benefits cut,like they are now under this government ,that's the gratitude you get from Camerons lot.How about you defending all the sick and disabled that have died worrying how they will live after being declared fit when they obviously are not, come on Jonny how can people with heart conditions ,missing limbs be "able bodied"" one day ,and dead the next.
Jonny p, Under a labour government injured ex servicemen wouldn;t be having their benefits cut,like they are now under this government ,that's the gratitude you get from Camerons lot.How about you defending all the sick and disabled that have died worrying how they will live after being declared fit when they obviously are not, come on Jonny how can people with heart conditions ,missing limbs be "able bodied"" one day ,and dead the next. fracker

1:52pm Sun 20 Jan 13

johnny_p says...

fracker wrote:
Jonny p, Under a labour government injured ex servicemen wouldn;t be having their benefits cut,like they are now under this government ,that's the gratitude you get from Camerons lot.How about you defending all the sick and disabled that have died worrying how they will live after being declared fit when they obviously are not, come on Jonny how can people with heart conditions ,missing limbs be "able bodied"" one day ,and dead the next.
What? I really can't understand what you're trying to say- gives me a headache after the first couple of lines. I don't mean this to sound patronising but if you're wanting to make a point at least try and learn to write properly.

At least you didn't duplicate or triplicate that comment like you normally do.
[quote][p][bold]fracker[/bold] wrote: Jonny p, Under a labour government injured ex servicemen wouldn;t be having their benefits cut,like they are now under this government ,that's the gratitude you get from Camerons lot.How about you defending all the sick and disabled that have died worrying how they will live after being declared fit when they obviously are not, come on Jonny how can people with heart conditions ,missing limbs be "able bodied"" one day ,and dead the next.[/p][/quote]What? I really can't understand what you're trying to say- gives me a headache after the first couple of lines. I don't mean this to sound patronising but if you're wanting to make a point at least try and learn to write properly. At least you didn't duplicate or triplicate that comment like you normally do. johnny_p

2:34pm Sun 20 Jan 13

simmo707 says...

FRACKER
BROKEN BRITIAN UNDER TORIES – NO ALTERNATIVE
Ed Miliband was interviewed on the Andrew Marr show and showed no capabilities of being an alternative leader to Cameron .He repeatedly plugged ‘universialty ‘ as the way forward meaning he totally agrees with Universal Credit due to thrust upon us in October 2013 cutting Welfare Benefits .There was no mention of the influx of a new wave of immigrants ,no mention of modifying the draconian new Welfare system ,just rhetoric hailing Ed Balls as very competent to run the economy but failing to say how Balls robbed the Pension fund of £5 billion ,promised to sell off G4 at the Labour Party Conference and months later reiterated the same promise when G4 had already been sold off and contracts put out for tender to build affordable housing by the Tories ,so someone that can’t even get basics right is to be trusted with the UK economy .
www.brokenbritainund
ertories.com
FRACKER BROKEN BRITIAN UNDER TORIES – NO ALTERNATIVE Ed Miliband was interviewed on the Andrew Marr show and showed no capabilities of being an alternative leader to Cameron .He repeatedly plugged ‘universialty ‘ as the way forward meaning he totally agrees with Universal Credit due to thrust upon us in October 2013 cutting Welfare Benefits .There was no mention of the influx of a new wave of immigrants ,no mention of modifying the draconian new Welfare system ,just rhetoric hailing Ed Balls as very competent to run the economy but failing to say how Balls robbed the Pension fund of £5 billion ,promised to sell off G4 at the Labour Party Conference and months later reiterated the same promise when G4 had already been sold off and contracts put out for tender to build affordable housing by the Tories ,so someone that can’t even get basics right is to be trusted with the UK economy . www.brokenbritainund ertories.com simmo707

2:45pm Sun 20 Jan 13

fracker says...

Jonny ,Just admit it you have no answer, ex-service people are being miss treated by having their benefits cut, people w ho will never be fit enough for work are being forced into tests were they have no chance of keeping their benefits ,because the government want cuts to the money paid out come what may,even when it is obvious the people concerned are too frail to deal with all the hassle of reapplying for the benefits.It takes somebody who must be really callous to support a government who delibrately kills of sick people to save money, can you understand that Jonny, because it makes me sick hearing about some of the individual cases of people actually being to ill to complete the tests and dying half way through-disgusting.
Jonny ,Just admit it you have no answer, ex-service people are being miss treated by having their benefits cut, people w ho will never be fit enough for work are being forced into tests were they have no chance of keeping their benefits ,because the government want cuts to the money paid out come what may,even when it is obvious the people concerned are too frail to deal with all the hassle of reapplying for the benefits.It takes somebody who must be really callous to support a government who delibrately kills of sick people to save money, can you understand that Jonny, because it makes me sick hearing about some of the individual cases of people actually being to ill to complete the tests and dying half way through-disgusting. fracker

2:45pm Sun 20 Jan 13

fracker says...

Jonny ,Just admit it you have no answer, ex-service people are being miss treated by having their benefits cut, people w ho will never be fit enough for work are being forced into tests were they have no chance of keeping their benefits ,because the government want cuts to the money paid out come what may,even when it is obvious the people concerned are too frail to deal with all the hassle of reapplying for the benefits.It takes somebody who must be really callous to support a government who delibrately kills of sick people to save money, can you understand that Jonny, because it makes me sick hearing about some of the individual cases of people actually being to ill to complete the tests and dying half way through-disgusting.
Jonny ,Just admit it you have no answer, ex-service people are being miss treated by having their benefits cut, people w ho will never be fit enough for work are being forced into tests were they have no chance of keeping their benefits ,because the government want cuts to the money paid out come what may,even when it is obvious the people concerned are too frail to deal with all the hassle of reapplying for the benefits.It takes somebody who must be really callous to support a government who delibrately kills of sick people to save money, can you understand that Jonny, because it makes me sick hearing about some of the individual cases of people actually being to ill to complete the tests and dying half way through-disgusting. fracker

5:40pm Sun 20 Jan 13

stiv says...

We are a country fit for foreigners, if you are british and not working, whatever the reason, you are finished. if you are foreign and not working you will prosper.
We are a country fit for foreigners, if you are british and not working, whatever the reason, you are finished. if you are foreign and not working you will prosper. stiv

7:15pm Sun 20 Jan 13

Jonn says...

Despite Mark Hobans claims in Parliament, DWP have given ATOS a target only allowing 12% to be declared unfit to work. This has been confirmed by whistle blowers and a channel 4 documentary.
If you have 1 minute, watch this youtube link.

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=YkzHxXg0r
fQ
Despite Mark Hobans claims in Parliament, DWP have given ATOS a target only allowing 12% to be declared unfit to work. This has been confirmed by whistle blowers and a channel 4 documentary. If you have 1 minute, watch this youtube link. http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=YkzHxXg0r fQ Jonn

10:11am Mon 21 Jan 13

Jonn says...

The matter of people commiting suicide as a result of these ATOS test has been raised in Parliament. Some coroners verdicts cited the WCA as cause of death.
Chris Grayling did not deny the fact but did say it was "a matter of regret" that people had killed themselves.
Here's the link to a 30 second video.

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=0yRaBth9w
6Q

Corporate manslaughter? You decide.
The matter of people commiting suicide as a result of these ATOS test has been raised in Parliament. Some coroners verdicts cited the WCA as cause of death. Chris Grayling did not deny the fact but did say it was "a matter of regret" that people had killed themselves. Here's the link to a 30 second video. http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=0yRaBth9w 6Q Corporate manslaughter? You decide. Jonn

6:55pm Mon 21 Jan 13

johnny_p says...

Please stop duplicating or triplicating your comments Fracker. Why do you keep doing this?
Please stop duplicating or triplicating your comments Fracker. Why do you keep doing this? johnny_p

7:30pm Mon 21 Jan 13

Heretic says...

Open your eyes people, you're all so concerned with labour vs cons bickering that you have lost perspective. This link will provide some: http://rt.com/news/o
xfam-report-global-i
nequality-357/

The poor disabled people abused by ATOS would still be in this sorry state of affairs no matter whether a red or a blue PM is in office at number 10 and will continue to be so, until people realise that these things will happen no matter who is in office because number 10 is just a puppet who's strings are pulled by the banks and corporations and for them - profit comes first and foremost.

It's not about Labour vs Conservatives.
Neither is it about who has left wing, and who has right wing views either.

It's about the system being broken and the need for people to realise and fix it, before it's too late for those that are vulnerable.
Open your eyes people, you're all so concerned with labour vs cons bickering that you have lost perspective. This link will provide some: http://rt.com/news/o xfam-report-global-i nequality-357/ The poor disabled people abused by ATOS would still be in this sorry state of affairs no matter whether a red or a blue PM is in office at number 10 and will continue to be so, until people realise that these things will happen no matter who is in office because number 10 is just a puppet who's strings are pulled by the banks and corporations and for them - profit comes first and foremost. It's not about Labour vs Conservatives. Neither is it about who has left wing, and who has right wing views either. It's about the system being broken and the need for people to realise and fix it, before it's too late for those that are vulnerable. Heretic

8:05pm Mon 21 Jan 13

spragger says...

Labour MP says minister 'has blood on their hands'
- What's new?

What are Labours policies such that we can live within our means?

Labour are only good for spending other peoples money
Labour MP says minister 'has blood on their hands' - What's new? What are Labours policies such that we can live within our means? Labour are only good for spending other peoples money spragger

8:18pm Mon 21 Jan 13

IanfromCrook says...

There is a difference, one has no heart the other has a heart but is in such fear of the right wing press that it apes the other. Spin spin spin............ever
yone says they hate it but the majority of voters prove the opposite by their deeds.
There is a difference, one has no heart the other has a heart but is in such fear of the right wing press that it apes the other. Spin spin spin............ever yone says they hate it but the majority of voters prove the opposite by their deeds. IanfromCrook

8:42pm Mon 21 Jan 13

simmo707 says...

HECTIC any views on educating the sheep when the powers that be control everything in this country ,Media,Policy ,Pricing ,NHS ,Police - its has to be a concerted effort by the populace who are ready to be lead in a different way -
HECTIC any views on educating the sheep when the powers that be control everything in this country ,Media,Policy ,Pricing ,NHS ,Police - its has to be a concerted effort by the populace who are ready to be lead in a different way - simmo707

12:25pm Tue 22 Jan 13

fracker says...

don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t
don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t fracker

12:25pm Tue 22 Jan 13

fracker says...

don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t
don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t fracker

12:25pm Tue 22 Jan 13

fracker says...

don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t
don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t fracker

12:25pm Tue 22 Jan 13

fracker says...

don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t
don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t fracker

12:25pm Tue 22 Jan 13

fracker says...

don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t
don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t fracker

12:25pm Tue 22 Jan 13

fracker says...

don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t
don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t fracker

12:25pm Tue 22 Jan 13

fracker says...

don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t
don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t fracker

12:26pm Tue 22 Jan 13

fracker says...

don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t
don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t fracker

12:26pm Tue 22 Jan 13

fracker says...

don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t
don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t fracker

12:26pm Tue 22 Jan 13

fracker says...

don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t
don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t fracker

12:26pm Tue 22 Jan 13

fracker says...

don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t
don't know what you mean Jonny,why do you keep talking s**t fracker

9:27pm Tue 22 Jan 13

greenfinger says...

one way to end a thread!
one way to end a thread! greenfinger

9:45pm Tue 22 Jan 13

spragger says...

Fracker has one heck of a stutter .. .
Fracker has one heck of a stutter .. . spragger

12:50pm Wed 23 Jan 13

burgardsi says...

my classmate's mother-in-law makes $61 hourly on the internet. She has been laid off for 6 months but last month her pay was $18664 just working on the internet for a few hours. Read more on this site FAB33.COM
my classmate's mother-in-law makes $61 hourly on the internet. She has been laid off for 6 months but last month her pay was $18664 just working on the internet for a few hours. Read more on this site FAB33.COM burgardsi

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