North-East pensioners reject proposal to means test winter fuel benefit (From The Northern Echo)

how much would it cost to **** each case?

So they're saying that winter fuel benefit shouldn't be means tested as it would involve pensioners filling out paperwork?? Are you being serious?

Incredible. What about busy working families who have little time to fill in paperwork for child tax credits? Disability living allowance?

There are plenty of charitable services offering help free of charge for filling in forms (which really shouldn't be made an arduous task anyway)...

If it saves struggling elderly people from paying tens of thousands of pounds for care home fees by introducing a fair cap on the fees then I am all for it.

Incredible...

They really have got the bit between their teeth.Rob the pensioners,the sick the vulnerable.Rob anyone who is low down on the social scale.But lets have a massive tax CUT for the top earners.Oh yes.Definitely all in it together.They are in clover.We are in something that doesnt smell as sweet,and is not a nice colour.
Thatcher wanted to destroy the welfare state,but was prevented at the time.Now,the "Children of Thatcher"Coalition are doing her will with relish. I served in the forces for this damned country.I worked and paid my taxes.I paid my N.i. contributions too.I,and MOST pensioners believe that we are ENTITLED.We do NOT seek handouts,we have earned what we get,and a bloody sight more besides.Why the hell should we be means tested now.?

Noctu,It would take more than simply sending a form for somebody to fill in,you would have to appoint staff to assess which pensioners would still get the money,and which would not,and there would have to be money alloted to get the assesments done,so would any money be saved?

Noctu,It would take more than simply sending a form for somebody to fill in,you would have to appoint staff to assess which pensioners would still get the money,and which would not,and there would have to be money alloted to get the assesments done,so would any money be saved?

Sorry Sean Fahey....Pensioners deserve MORE than they get. These lazy potty governments 'ave snitched our munny already and botched it AND are comfortably paid by us hatchin up more ways to steal more. 'Tho just a chance, eh?...at least ex minister Paul agin confirms our beliefs that the Lib Dems ideas are suicidal for OUR country so no votes for that lot next time. Annyway no doubt 'e or 'is assistants 'ave done their 'omework and know that us pensioners 'ave done it all before and freezed our b+++++++ 'orf when winters was winter and that other potty politician 'itler was messin us around.

Idontknowaboutyoubut wrote:
They really have got the bit between their teeth.Rob the pensioners,the sick the vulnerable.Rob anyone who is low down on the social scale.But lets have a massive tax CUT for the top earners.Oh yes.Definitely all in it together.They are in clover.We are in something that doesnt smell as sweet,and is not a nice colour.
Thatcher wanted to destroy the welfare state,but was prevented at the time.Now,the "Children of Thatcher"Coalition are doing her will with relish. I served in the forces for this damned country.I worked and paid my taxes.I paid my N.i. contributions too.I,and MOST pensioners believe that we are ENTITLED.We do NOT seek handouts,we have earned what we get,and a bloody sight more besides.Why the hell should we be means tested now.?

If your a pensioner today of course your going to feel hard done by and look after number one. The point is there is a large percentage of pensioners who get more in pensions than the average worker earns and they dont get a winter fuel alowance. For anyone below the age of 50 todays crop of pensioners will appear to have received gold plated benefits to what (if any) they will receive when they are able to retire at around the age of 70. There are more and increasing numbers of pensioners who are drawing what are being now seen as generous pensions/benefits who are living longer, at the same time the number of workers is declining (its not just pensioners but also all forms of benefit claimants). The current system is unsustainable in the long term. The government, quite rightly in my opinion, is trying to save 1.5 billion to introduce a cap of around 60k for personal care for all pensioners so people dont have to sell all their assets to pay for their care. Why should those who have worked and saved hard be stripped of all their assets in old age at the same time as those who have recklassly spent every penny prior to old age receive everything for free?

Common sense Steve. Not much of that around here.

Well said, totally agree with Stevegg & Mr Lacey very common sense.

Very soon a lot of people are going to have paid lots of tax and NICS and not get a thing out of it.
It will not be long before the state pension goes the journey
They will have paid out their money to keep many who have never paid ANY tax or NICS in their lifetime
About then many are going to say .. Why? and vote accordingly..
Its about time to say you cannot draw out anymore in benefits than you have paid in . ..
To protect the few genuine claimants in need

"Liberal Democrat MP Paul Burstow said targeting the allowance for all but the poorest of pensioners would help pay for a fairer system of state support for old age care." .
Read a similar article earlier only the quote was 'MAY' be used to put a cap on care payments. One word could mean a chasm of what we think is the purpose and what will happen.
The idea on the face of it is basically saying if you acquire assets throughout your life some maybe safeguarded how? by getting those same people to pay for it yearly. It seems to me just shuffling money about who will actually benefit ...... heirs, civil servants and politicians,,,, it will give money to one and a little more employment to the other two.
It is hard to choose which side of this fence to sit on as it seems to be revolving.

The government should look to themselves and give up some of their pension to help care for the elderly ,or take it of the greedy people on this b log with second pensions, now thats common sense.

Maybe there will be an exodus north bound Scotland manages free care for the elderly and free prescriptions.......
...........The more complex the rules the higher the cost of the service............f
ree to all is simple......English politicians pull the wool over our eyes, or try to, selling their jobs as being sooo hard not explaining that they are the reason for the complexities.

Idontknowaboutyoubut wrote:
They really have got the bit between their teeth.Rob the pensioners,the sick the vulnerable.Rob anyone who is low down on the social scale.But lets have a massive tax CUT for the top earners.Oh yes.Definitely all in it together.They are in clover.We are in something that doesnt smell as sweet,and is not a nice colour.
Thatcher wanted to destroy the welfare state,but was prevented at the time.Now,the "Children of Thatcher"Coalition are doing her will with relish. I served in the forces for this damned country.I worked and paid my taxes.I paid my N.i. contributions too.I,and MOST pensioners believe that we are ENTITLED.We do NOT seek handouts,we have earned what we get,and a bloody sight more besides.Why the hell should we be means tested now.?

Don't be so bloody ridiculous and greedy. What about multi-millionaire or just millionaire pensioners? Should they get winter fuel benefit?

I earn £90k a year and send my kids to private school and have private medical insurance.So why should I pay tax to fund education and the NHS for working class types?

I don't by the way, but I hope you can see the point I'm making.

My father in law is a millionaire and gets a winter fuel allowance every year. He has actually tried to stop receiving it but it seems there is no computer system for this. Means testing sounds like a very sensible idea to me. As does a mass cull on the illiterate, ill mannered, benefit wallowing, immature scum that make up vast swathes of the population.

Dean, do you mean you are a tax dodger,brave of you to admit it online,some people have no shame. lol

Another daft idea where it would cost more to administer it than it would save making the gov. worse off than before

outragedofmiltonkeyn
es wrote:
My father in law is a millionaire and gets a winter fuel allowance every year. He has actually tried to stop receiving it but it seems there is no computer system for this. Means testing sounds like a very sensible idea to me. As does a mass cull on the illiterate, ill mannered, benefit wallowing, immature scum that make up vast swathes of the population.

WELL SAID.....
Any pensioner with savings above £25,000 or are classed in that " rich bracket " should not receive any cold weather payments at all....
What about all the families in fuel poverty that cannot afford to heat their homes?
Myself and the wife work, and we are using on average £50 a week on heating..Even we find it difficult at times, but we manage....Give payments to those that really need it and not those that are just leeching more cash form us all.....

outragedofmiltonkeyn
es wrote:
My father in law is a millionaire and gets a winter fuel allowance every year. He has actually tried to stop receiving it but it seems there is no computer system for this. Means testing sounds like a very sensible idea to me. As does a mass cull on the illiterate, ill mannered, benefit wallowing, immature scum that make up vast swathes of the population.

Well done, outraged. Now if you only substitute "JEWS" for "scum" you might become Fuhrer. I am assuming this is a wind-up post, or you were drunk when you posted it.

Not at all. I have no problem with people who are "genuine" recipients of benefit. My angst lies with the scurge of Britain who have never had a job and have no desire to get one. If you feel that there is an argument to be had about these pillocks who hang around outside the job centre spitting on the floor and speaking like 14 year olds being active job seekers then crack on old son.
You might be interested where my distaste comes from, i shall enlighten you.
A few years ago i found myself with a decreasing order book and took the decision to close the doors before i got into debt keeping the business afloat. I found myself sitting in the job centre being told that despite having 2 kids, a mortgage and everything that goes with that i could not have any benefts of any kind because i had been self employed and paid class 2 NI. I then asked the waste of space at the next table who was signing on if he had ever had a job. No was the reply and when i questioned why he was being given money for nothing i was told he,like many many others were regarded as a lost cause so they just kept signing on with no questions asked.I picked myself up started again and am now doing very well im pleased to say.Thats why i have a problem with the benefits system and the scroungers playing it for all its worth.

To outragedofmiltonkeyn
es
.
You have my complete admiration sir. We need more like you.

outragedofmiltonkeyn
es wrote:
Not at all. I have no problem with people who are "genuine" recipients of benefit. My angst lies with the scurge of Britain who have never had a job and have no desire to get one. If you feel that there is an argument to be had about these pillocks who hang around outside the job centre spitting on the floor and speaking like 14 year olds being active job seekers then crack on old son.
You might be interested where my distaste comes from, i shall enlighten you.
A few years ago i found myself with a decreasing order book and took the decision to close the doors before i got into debt keeping the business afloat. I found myself sitting in the job centre being told that despite having 2 kids, a mortgage and everything that goes with that i could not have any benefts of any kind because i had been self employed and paid class 2 NI. I then asked the waste of space at the next table who was signing on if he had ever had a job. No was the reply and when i questioned why he was being given money for nothing i was told he,like many many others were regarded as a lost cause so they just kept signing on with no questions asked.I picked myself up started again and am now doing very well im pleased to say.Thats why i have a problem with the benefits system and the scroungers playing it for all its worth.

What you have said would be funny If it weren't true .

I don't know weather to laugh or cry at your comments. Sadly, you've painted a very sad picture of this fcuked up country we live in.

Beveridge would turn in his grave if he could understand where his Welfare system has ended up.

Dean M wrote:

Idontknowaboutyoubut wrote:
They really have got the bit between their teeth.Rob the pensioners,the sick the vulnerable.Rob anyone who is low down on the social scale.But lets have a massive tax CUT for the top earners.Oh yes.Definitely all in it together.They are in clover.We are in something that doesnt smell as sweet,and is not a nice colour.
Thatcher wanted to destroy the welfare state,but was prevented at the time.Now,the "Children of Thatcher"Coalition are doing her will with relish. I served in the forces for this damned country.I worked and paid my taxes.I paid my N.i. contributions too.I,and MOST pensioners believe that we are ENTITLED.We do NOT seek handouts,we have earned what we get,and a bloody sight more besides.Why the hell should we be means tested now.?

Don't be so bloody ridiculous and greedy. What about multi-millionaire or just millionaire pensioners? Should they get winter fuel benefit?

I earn £90k a year and send my kids to private school and have private medical insurance.So why should I pay tax to fund education and the NHS for working class types?

I don't by the way, but I hope you can see the point I'm making.

When I want lectures from racists like you,I'll let you know.till then,pull you neck in and do not tell me I am "bloody ridiculous and greedy"

Means testing benefits often costs more in administration than they save as the Coalition is likely to find out with their child benefit cuts (which will I predict along with the Universal Credit dog this government for the rest if its duration). A lot more sensible and of more benfit to EVERYONE would be to scrap the 5% VAT on domestic power.

Okay 'Idontknowaboutyoubu
t', I apologise. I should have called you bloody ridiculous, spiteful and greedy.

And you avoided my question. Should multi-millionaire pensioners get winter fuel benefit? If so, then the highest earners should get child benefit, surely? They pay more tax than everyone else, so surely they are 'ENTITLED' as you put it.

Perhaps those on the highest incomes, who send their kids to private school and have private health insurance, should be paying a lot less tax, not a lot more? Because they give up most of their access to the NHS and Education systems that they are 'ENTITLED' to.

Those who serve in the forces 'for this damned country' get paid for doing so. Most of us pay tax and N.I.
Exactly how long is this list of yours, of benefits 'and a bloody sight more besides', that you have 'earned'?

Your greed is appalling. And your attempt to detract, by bringing in daft, unrelated claims of 'racist', just shows you up as the spiteful, sad old ignorant loser that you really are.

Oh! People Stop the name calling, grow up, kiss and make up and let us get back to some sensible debate.

victorjames wrote:
Means testing benefits often costs more in administration than they save as the Coalition is likely to find out with their child benefit cuts (which will I predict along with the Universal Credit dog this government for the rest if its duration). A lot more sensible and of more benfit to EVERYONE would be to scrap the 5% VAT on domestic power.

In complete agreement with this comment. You would think if the coalition was genuinely bothered about the state of UK economics they would heed the simple fact that simplification should be the necessity. However it is more about the game of politics than the country.

(i don'ttbelieve it is as bad as they tell us...looking at debt as a % of GDP)

ianfromcrook your'e quite right in your conclusion. Papers from the Thatcher years have shown that the Tories have long wanted to dismantle the welfare state. Their whipped up scare from what was essentially a banking disaster has given them the perfect excuse. Of course Blair and Brown encouraged and admired the bankers but the Tories in opposition agreed with that approach.

I accept there may be a need to cut benefits as part of the austerity measures but not while we fund the European Union, fund overseas aid, fund illegal wars, fund MP's & Lords expenses. once this has been stopped then we can start talking about UK benefits!